Timing: an issue with S&W revolvers?

[UDR2]

I was watching a video review of a Ruger GP100, and Jeff Quinn made a statement to the effect that "with the GP, you do not have to worry about cracking the forcing cone, or the revolver getting out of time." He never said, or even implied, that timing is an issue with S&W guns; yet almost every S&W gun ad I see on Gun Broker seems to specifically mention that the timing is good on the gun that is for sale - as though timing is an issue with S&W revolvers. After all, if timing was not an issue, why the is there a need to mention it so often?

My question is, with extended use, are S&W revolvers prone to develop timing issues, and if so, is the problem more common in S&W revolvers than in Rugers? (Just so you know where I am coming from, I am a big fan of S&W revolvers. I own 7 of them so far... and none of them have any issues whatsoever.)

 

[JoeHatley]

My question is, with extended use, are S&W revolvers prone to develop timing issues

IMO, no. Parts wear out on all guns that are actually used. S&W revolvers may get shot more and are kept longer than other brands.

 

[tomcatt51]

are S&W revolvers prone to develop timing issues?

Another NO. There's alot more obsessing than issues.

 

[UDR2]

Another NO. There's alot more obsessing than issues.

Isn't that always the case?!

Thanks for the replies, guys. I think I'll keep my Smiths (not that I was planning on selling them.)

 

[scooter123]

I've always heard that it's the Colt Python and Anaconda that tend to go out of time. Never having owned either I have no idea if that is true or internet rumor.

As for S&W revolvers, timing issues are wear related and I suspect that Rugers are just as prone to wear as any S&W. However, the K frames can split the forcing cone with 357 Magnums when a light bullet loaded near peak pressure is used. If you want to shoot the rocket loads it's wiser to move up to either the L or N frame models, those are likely just as durable as the Ruger.

 

[UDR2]

However, the K frames can split the forcing cone with 357 Magnums when a light bullet loaded near peak pressure is used. If you want to shoot the rocket loads it's wiser to move up to either the L or N frame models, those are likely just as durable as the Ruger.

Thank you. I appreciate that info.

I have read just about everything posted on the internet about K-frames and forcing cone damage... as well as damage do to flame cutting. It's a particular interest of mine since coughing up big bucks for 3 k-frame revolvers. From what I gather, it is not light bullets alone that did the damage, but as you suggest, light bullets in "hot loads." There are modern magnum loads using 110 grain bullets (WWB) and 125 grain bullets (Golden Sabers) that are "mild" magnum loads and should be just fine in K-frames.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I've always heard that it's the Colt Python and Anaconda that tend to go out of time. Never having owned either I have no idea if that is true or internet rumor.

As for S&W revolvers, timing issues are wear related and I suspect that Rugers are just as prone to wear as any S&W. However, the K frames can split the forcing cone with 357 Magnums when a light bullet loaded near peak pressure is used. If you want to shoot the rocket loads it's wiser to move up to either the L or N frame models, those are likely just as durable as the Ruger.

I've owned a Python for 32 years......Yes they do go out of time if you shoot them much....Had to peen(stretch) the hand to get the timing back right. Been shooting some of my Smiths for longer than that.....None have ever gone out of time......Did bust a forcing cone in a 19 in 1986 but thats another story.

 

[310Pilot]

I've always heard that it's the Colt Python and Anaconda that tend to go out of time. Never having owned either I have no idea if that is true or internet rumor.

As for S&W revolvers, timing issues are wear related and I suspect that Rugers are just as prone to wear as any S&W. However, the K frames can split the forcing cone with 357 Magnums when a light bullet loaded near peak pressure is used. If you want to shoot the rocket loads it's wiser to move up to either the L or N frame models, those are likely just as durable as the Ruger.

I have had several S&Ws go out pf time, in fact, that was the second most frequent repair we had to make to K frames, following loose ejector rods, back when I owned a gun shop. Smiths are pretty easy to repair timing problems, Colts are much more difficult, so I send them to the factory when I encounter problems. Yes, they still work on them and have parts (service only, no sales). I sent my 1965 Python in a year or two sgo (2.5" Nickel ), and ot came back good as new, ready for another 35 years of faithful service. All mechanical devices wear with use, and will eventually require repair.

 

[OutOfRange]

Everybody who's worried about their S&W revolvers going out of time, please send 'em to my FFL and I'll make sure they don't trouble you ever again.

 

[UDR2]

Everybody who's worried about their S&W revolvers going out of time, please send 'em to my FFL and I'll make sure they don't trouble you ever again.

Cool, what's his address?

 

[chief38]

Over the years I have had a few Smiths that were slightly out of time when I bought them; a few were NIB. I have a pretty fair inventory of parts and work on guns all the time so getting them back in time was not a big deal. Once they had been repaired, they have never again faltered - and yes I shoot the heck out of them!

Colt DA revolvers are out of time right out of the box more times than I care to admit. Their internals are different than Smiths, and that just seems to be their nature. IMHO Colt's never time nearly as good as Smiths do.

The way most people check for proper timing is by applying slight resistance to the cylinder, slowly pulling the trigger and seeing if the hammer falls before or after lock up. While a poorly timed gun needs to be repaired, no one in the real world actually shoots a revolver like that. The inertia from a standard speed trigger pull will usually lock up a cylinder even on a revolver that is slightly out of time.

Chief38

 

[Aussie D]

Gday all,
Yes S&W and Colts do go "out of time". I have never owned a Ruger, so cannot comment.

A poorly timed revolver can be dangerous. If the hammer drops with the cylinder not in line, expect splatter as a miniun, possibly damage to self and gun in a worst case scenario.

Easy enough to fix, so if you think your revolver is "out of time", I would recomend having it repaired by someone with the knowledge and skills to do it right.

Cheers,

Aussie D

 

[tomcatt51]

A poorly timed revolver can be dangerous. If the hammer drops with the cylinder not in line, expect splatter as a miniun, possibly damage to self and gun in a worst case scenario.

Not really. If the cylinder stop isn't locked (in the notch) one of two things happens, the gun fires and as the bullet makes the cylinder to barrel "jump" it brings the cylinder into alignment and it locks up. It may "spit" a little.

Or, if it's farther "out of time" it just won't go bang. The firing pin is no longer centered on the primer well enough for ignition.

I shot a PPC match with my 625 (used for USPSA revolver or bowling pins usually) and found it had a hand worn enough it wouldn't carry up and fire (very annoying) if rolled thru slowly. Made me a little curious so I shot groups with the cylinder stop NOT engaged, cylinder "out of time". It moved the cylinder into alignment and engaged the stop when fired, spit a little, and shot an inch or inch and a half bigger group. Farther "out of time" and it wouldn't go bang. No big deal.

 

[Pisgah]

S&Ws more prone to going out-of time than the GP-100? Sure. But, it's a relative sort of thing.

Any revolver can and will eventually begin losing its timing -- but with reasonable loads it takes thousand upon thousands of rounds of use/abuse. It's the nature of the beast -- many fairly small, precisely fitted parts wear and, sooner or later, don't work so well together any more. No mystery or suprise there.

While the S&W design has proven over decades to be robust and reliable, it is simply not as robust as the GP-100 design. The parts, and all their engagement surfaces, are smaller and lighter. Is this a problem? Yes, and no. While it may wear quicker, it is also more easily tuned for a smooth action and lighter trigger pull. And in practical terms, the quicker wear is not really all that much quicker -- unless you fire a truly outrageous number of heavy loads, either design should outlast the average shooter.

The S&W design is heavy-duty; the GP-100 design is just a bit heavier-duty. Put it this way -- a K-frame .357 Smith may not hold its timing as long as a GP-100 -- the GP is a beefier, heavier gun overall; but an N-frame .357 will equal or exceed the GP-100 service life before needing a rebuild.

 

[kudzu3]

I've had timing problems with a few Colts but never with a S&W. I believe that most timing problems reported with S&Ws are caused by sloppy or inexperienced gun smith work.

 

[J-FRAME]

After shooting S&W all my life you will have timing issues if you actually shoot these guns a lot. Also if you use a screwdriver enough you will wear the tip down. Tools that get used do wear out. Its pretty easy to fix the timing and go on or don,t shoot it and just look at it and it will never have any timing problems.

 

[tomcatt51]

I believe that most timing problems reported with S&Ws are caused by sloppy or inexperienced gun smith work.

I think alot of "timing problems" really aren't. Too many expect the cylinder stop to drop into place early enough that you can feel the glitch at the end of the trigger pull from a "too thick" hand being forced past the ratchet. Fine if like your's that way but I set mine up to not have that feel (the "staged trigger" nonsense gun writers like to refer to) and many would consider my guns to have a "timing problem" with "late" timing .

 

[Aussie D]

Not really. If the cylinder stop isn't locked (in the notch) one of two things happens, the gun fires and as the bullet makes the cylinder to barrel "jump" it brings the cylinder into alignment and it locks up. It may "spit" a little.

Or, if it's farther "out of time" it just won't go bang. The firing pin is no longer centered on the primer well enough for ignition.

I shot a PPC match with my 625 (used for USPSA revolver or bowling pins usually) and found it had a hand worn enough it wouldn't carry up and fire (very annoying) if rolled thru slowly. Made me a little curious so I shot groups with the cylinder stop NOT engaged, cylinder "out of time". It moved the cylinder into alignment and engaged the stop when fired, spit a little, and shot an inch or inch and a half bigger group. Farther "out of time" and it wouldn't go bang. No big deal.

Tomcatt,
Thanks for your opinion. I hope no one is injured from your advice. Picture a older model 19 and some nice high pressure 125gn Jacketed ammo, that does in fact go "bang", and a new forum member who has listened to your advice "no big deal".

I have seen through personal experience rounds ignite with the firing pin strike on the edge of the primer. Luckily they were very mild reloads.

Cheers,

Aussie D

 

[yamadeal]

Thank goodness gun do get worn out so some of us can have a job.

 

[brucev]

Re: OP. I have been shooting revolvers for 30 years. Mostly this shooting has been DA revolvers, i.e., S&W, Ruger and Colt. I have not ever been deeply impressed with the Colt revolvers. Even the Pythons have been less than impressive with nice SA trigger pulls, but only good DA trigger pulls. Maybe the ones I've owned have only been atypical, but that is my experience. The Ruger's I've owned have all been well made, but overly heavy and "clunky." The triggers have been uniformly heavy in SA. In DA, the triggers have been smooth but heavy stacking toward the end of the pull, etc. Perhaps that is the trade off one faces in a design that is geared more toward durability and less toward users who prefer a more refined usable action. I've found the S&W DA and SA trigger pulls to be uniformly superior. In 30 years I've had two S&W revolvers give trouble. On one the hammer nose broke and had to be replaced. On the other the spring that operates the cylinder bolt broke. I've not ever had a S&W revolver go out of time. Some of those revolvers were bought new and shot hard. Others were bought used and shot hard. Not one single revolver ever went out of time. I currently have only a few handguns... one RIA 1911 and five S&W's. The S&W's are shot the same way I've always shot revolvers... frequently. This afternoon I will shoot my 18-3 and 28-3. One day down the road I may end up having shot these and my other revolvers enough to have one of them go out of time. If that happens, I'll just let S&W handle it. Cool.