To abandon a friend

[WuzzFuzz]

Over this Labor day week-end I drove over to see a man whom I had become a friend to. I met him about 8 or 9 years ago and we seemed to hit it off. He's young, about the same age as my youngest daughter, 45 years old. He sort of took to me, as a father figure. I think because he looked up to me as a father figure he never had, because his father was a alcoholic too. (Not me)

Anyway, I knew he was a alcoholic, and he admits that he is one. But this past week-end, it seems it's become worse. Even his wife, who has stuck by him mentioned that he's changed. (Wife says she won't divorce him, because of her religion)

It's hard to stand by and watch how he talks to his kids, and another of mixed ethnic blood. Even some of the insults I received, and another friend who always comes at the same time as I do to visit.

Long story longer. This time, the other friend and I left early Saturday morning, after sitting outside on Friday night, talking with the alcoholic. But on Saturday morning, the alcoholic was still sleeping it off. So second friend and I went for breakfast, and did some other sight seeing in the area.

We returned later on Saturday, and it started all over again.

Sunday, the other friend and I left early, and we just went on our way..We were not going to wait around until he woke up from his Saturday night of more drinking.

SO...the question is, should I and the other friend, just abandon our alcoholic "friend"? I know, and you know, he will never change, until he wants to change. And it doesn't appear that he ever will.

It's hard to stand by him, and continue to call him a friend. It's hard to visit and see how he has deteriorated, not only physically, but how the alcohol has clouded his thinking and actions. It's hard to answer the phone at 11 at night, when he is in his drunken stupor. I know I will never just tell him to take a hike. Probably just try and let him fade away and ignore him as more time goes by.

So just how long can a person stand by a alcoholic?


WuzzFuzz

 

[Arik]

I suppose it depends on how good of a friend he is. For me, if I say he's a friend then it's someone who I consider like a brother. Anything else is just an acquaintance.

So if he's a friend then yes I would stick by him.

 

[tompehret]

Been there on both sides of the table. My friends waited til they caught me in a relatively sober state and let me know why the friendship was over. That helped motivate me to sober up (34 yrs. now). It also relieved them of having to watch me deteriorate. I could have gone either way. It's hard to watch someone destroy themselves and those around them as they go. Let him go. Give emotional and other support the wife & kids as best you can. They're the real victims.

 

[doublesharp]

I'll do anything I can to help an alcoholic get sober but I have no patience for one who is still drinking. Drunk talk is worthless.

 

[TenTea]

I, also, have been on both sides of the equation and it's a tough one.

Your *friend* must decide for himself to change, and there is not much you or anyone else can do until that moment.

I vote: Tough Love, i.e. stay away, but be available for support if and when he decides to sober up.

 

[Biginge]

Show me an alcoholic still plying his trade and there will be an enabler somewhere close. I quit in 1977. I am a firm believer in the tough love aspect and not knowing any more than you posted here, I believe it is about time to explain that you can no longer stand by and watch him slowly do himself in. His wife should be of the same mindset. As long as everyone is playing on his field, with the boundaries set by him, he will continue to "practice" his problem. If you would like to talk about it further, pm me. It is , indeed, a tough situation.

 

[4011]

Well, my brother that was four years older was like that. Family tried to get him to stop. He called at times drunk. I finally let go of him. I didn't answer his calls. My sisters would ask me if I'd heard from him. In the end it was left up to me to pull the plug on his life support system. Our family told me and I knew it was the right thing to do. He had near photographic memory and wasted his life. You have done all you can do. Don't let him take you down.

 

[Onomea]

Some of us are saints, and most of us are sinners. The occasional saints among us have a lot more patience than the rest of us. Much more than me, for sure. I say, follow your heart as to how to deal with your alcoholic friend. But do recognize that it is a sickness, a disease. Not a character flaw.

I'd probably avoid the guy because I'd find it just too darn unpleasant to deal with. But I'm no saint.

 

[indie_rocker]

I'll do anything I can to help an alcoholic get sober but I have no patience for one who is still drinking. Drunk talk is worthless.

^^^Amen brother^^^

This fellow you describe, the alcoholic, reminds me of my father. After I got sober myself, it became necessary for me to distance myself. I love my dad, always will, but I need to love him from a distance. If he left me a voicemail one day that said he wanted to get help, I would jump all over it... Till then, I carry on and wish him the best.

That's just my experience with an active alcoholic, yours my differ.

 

[Smoke]

It's been said, if you continue to shield him for the consequences of his drinking he will continue to drink.

If you continue to associate with him he will continue to drag you into his mess.

I've been sober going on 32 years and the best advice I can give you is to sit down and read the first 164 pages of the book Alcoholics Anonymous to gain some understanding then sit the guy down while he's sober and tell him you can't abet his alcoholism any more AND STICK BY IT.

 

[arjay]

I've known a few and was married to one for decades.At this stage of my life Ive become very cold blooded.None of them were worth it.

 

[Brian41]

I'd likely start distancing myself from him but be there should he want to change himself some time. I had a couple friends like him and they more or less distanced themselves from me as I wasn't fun to party with anymore after I remarried. I've lost touch with both now and they may have drank themselves to death by now.
My brother-in-law has been an alcoholic for years and lost his wife and kids over it and has done jail time from DUIs. He's sobered up for good periods of time before and started drinking again. Right now he's been sober a year but could expect a relapse anytime. We used to be good friends but he too distanced himself when drinking and I wasn't so much anymore.
It's all their choice and they do seek enablers which I refuse to be. Tough love seems to be the only thing they understand and will take advantage of your friendship if they can.

 

[OldDominion]

You have to make the decision what you will do. You are doing him no favor by continuing to be his audience. What ever demon or pain he is trying to drown, he will never stop until he has lost everything. Sadly, for some that includes their life. My mother was an alcoholic and after my dad passed she went into a steep decline. We got her into a facility after a suicide attempt, and with God's help and AA she was sober for the last decades of her life. But she knew that one drink would wipe away all she had accomplished. Your friend has to hit the very bottom of his existence. Only then will he have any chance.

 

[Arik]

I don't see how distancing is hard love. Over the years I've had many friends with whom I've lost touch. It wasn't on purpose but no one cried about it. Looking at it from my point of view .... if you don't want to be my friend then ok. To me tough love is hands on. I had a buddy who was a drug user and alcoholic in his 20s. When everyone had enough of it his parents called his work and had him quit. He stayed home under someone's supervision. If he went out he was under our supervision. Everything was done to make sure he couldn't drink or buy drugs. He's been sober 10 years. If we let him be he would still be drinking and doing drugs.

Isn't this the same reason A A have support groups. I've never heard A A use the shunning approach to help people

 

[Calaveras Slim]

Over this Labor day week-end I drove over to see a man whom I had become a friend to. I met him about 8 or 9 years ago and we seemed to hit it off. He's young, about the same age as my youngest daughter, 45 years old. He sort of took to me, as a father figure. I think because he looked up to me as a father figure he never had, because his father was a alcoholic too. (Not me)

Anyway, I knew he was a alcoholic, and he admits that he is one. But this past week-end, it seems it's become worse. Even his wife, who has stuck by him mentioned that he's changed. (Wife says she won't divorce him, because of her religion)

It's hard to stand by and watch how he talks to his kids, and another of mixed ethnic blood. Even some of the insults I received, and another friend who always comes at the same time as I do to visit.

Long story longer. This time, the other friend and I left early Saturday morning, after sitting outside on Friday night, talking with the alcoholic. But on Saturday morning, the alcoholic was still sleeping it off. So second friend and I went for breakfast, and did some other sight seeing in the area.

We returned later on Saturday, and it started all over again.

Sunday, the other friend and I left early, and we just went on our way..We were not going to wait around until he woke up from his Saturday night of more drinking.

SO...the question is, should I and the other friend, just abandon our alcoholic "friend"? I know, and you know, he will never change, until he wants to change. And it doesn't appear that he ever will.

It's hard to stand by him, and continue to call him a friend. It's hard to visit and see how he has deteriorated, not only physically, but how the alcohol has clouded his thinking and actions. It's hard to answer the phone at 11 at night, when he is in his drunken stupor. I know I will never just tell him to take a hike. Probably just try and let him fade away and ignore him as more time goes by.

So just how long can a person stand by a alcoholic?


WuzzFuzz

My BIL is the same way. We have stuck by him for over 2 years, several rehab stints and drying out periods. My wife(his sister) can't take it anymore and I refuse.

This last time, we told him to get psychiatric help and he refuses. You can't help someone who won't help themselves.

That's it, we're outta here.

 

[Smoke]

I don't see how distancing is hard love. Over the years I've had many friends with whom I've lost touch. It wasn't on purpose but no one cried about it. Looking at it from my point of view .... if you don't want to be my friend then ok. To me tough love is hands on. I had a buddy who was a drug user and alcoholic in his 20s. When everyone had enough of it his parents called his work and had him quit. He stayed home under someone's supervision. If he went out he was under our supervision. Everything was done to make sure he couldn't drink or buy drugs. He's been sober 10 years. If we let him be he would still be drinking and doing drugs.

Isn't this the same reason A A have support groups. I've never heard A A use the shunning approach to help people

This isn't shunning. The tough love part comes in when you tell the person that their specific behavior is unacceptable to you and that they are free to continue that behavior but you aren't going to enable them to continue that behavior any longer.

That means I won't be around when you drink, I won't bail you out of jail, I certainly won't drink with you or purchase alcohol for you or loan you any money or lie to cover your drinking any more.

Ultimately the message is I can't stop you from killing yourself but I'm not going to watch you do it or help you do it.

 

[pharman]

Check out Al-Anon for yourself!

Check out Al-Anon for yourself. It is an eye-opening experience! A lot, if not most of your questions will be answered. Hope this helps YOU!

 

[zzzippper]

As with my parents it is not abandonment, abusive drunks drive you away and then blame you. If you walk into the same bar night and night and get your *** kicked eventually there is no one to blame but yourself.

 

[shouldazagged]

I've been sober for 33 years; and like most (read "damn near all") alcoholics I didn't get help until enough doors had closed in my face. But we recovering (never "recovered", just recovering a day at a time) drunks are fond of saying, "It takes what it takes" for each individual.

You and his family can love your friend while holding him accountable for unacceptable behavior.

If his wife isn't attending Al-Anon, AA's sister organization for friends and family members, she would find a lot of help there and learn how to "detach with love", as they put it.

You might find it helpful too.

 

[old bear]

To abandon a friend

Wuzz, ask yourself who abandoned who?