To you Really Good Shooters -

[BubbaBlades]

It ain't the bow or the arrow, it's ---------

I do not find a difference in precision shooting either revolvers or semiautos in more than 20 calibers from .22LR through 460 Magnum. Almost all of my guns are factory stock (unmodified).

I was the top marksman in each of the military units that served in. I was also the top marksman in each of the police departments where I worked.

I have more than 50 YouTube precision shooting videos demonstrating me shooting dozens of different guns. The videos can be found on Youtube under:

bubbabladesfla

ps: I shot most of these videos after I turned 70 years old

 

[mikerjf]

Beware the man with just one gun, because he's probably going to go buy some more and then play with them until he can't shoot any of them well!

I've shot a lot of J frames and when I got an L, couldn't hit anything with it except by slow careful SA. I just know that the more I work on the L, the worse I'll be on the J. Kinda thinking on cutting back to a select few.

 

[glenwolde]

I own a variety of guns of various configurations. With guns of equal attributes I can pretty much shoot them equally, within my family of firearms. By that I mean I can't shoot a vintage Colt Agent as well as a 6" Model 66.

But within my normal circle of target guns it's pretty close. I'm somewhat of an anomaly amongst shooters. I have no interest in tactical shooting or any sort of competition. Most shooters find my style of shooting exceedingly boring. In fact if I ever find one that doesn't I'll let you know. It's why I shoot alone. I'm good with that. Not a social event for me.

I shoot at the same target, at the same distance, every time. I keep score (in my own way). Strictly two-handed, slow-fire, single-action. I used to shoot at 25 yards but after a couple of decades that became difficult as my range scaled back on the 25 yard range to expand the 7-10-15 yard ranges. I moved to 15 yards and scaled down my target.

I have (2) target .22 autos, (3) six inch adjustable sight S&W revolvers, and (2) Government 1911's all with adjustable sights. Besides the .22's these cover .38, 9mm, .357, .45ACP, and .41 Magnum. These are the only guns I shoot on a regular basis. The others go to the range maybe one a year.

With standard velocity practice ammo there's a little bit of a spread. I guess it depends on how you want to define "equally well". I shoot at a 4" bullseye at 15 yards. Right now, that's indoors. I shoot 25 rounds at each target. This works out well as it's half a box and four targets makes 100 rounds. I count the misses of the 4" bullseye and express it as a percentage. Fast and easy to do the math.

I generally shoot them all in the 90%'s. Now the .22's are in the high 90's and everything else in the mid 90%'s. The 1911's are around 90%, sometimes below, but to be fair to them I have less experience with them. If I didn't think I was going to get there I'd give up on them.

I track my score for each session in a spreadsheet and use a four-week moving average as "current performance".

I can do it with Magnum rounds, I just can't do it for as long. The .357 is O.K. but the .41 will sideline me if I shoot it too much. But I can get through 25 rounds every once in a while.

I've noticed lately I'm starting to slip a little. I think it my be age related. I think I need to step up my workout and get to the ophthalmologist.

Somebody asked me 40 years ago "how good a shot are you?" I didn't have an answer. Now I do. Honestly I feel like after 100,000+ rounds and almost 45 years I'd be a lot better. But it is what it is.

So while I wouldn't say I'm a great shot, I can kind of answer the question anyway. I'm not great but I am consistent. Since this is now getting as boring as my style of shooting I'll stop.

 

[Bumpus13]

I'm more-or-less similar with the majority of my handguns. I can generally hit my targets at reasonable distances, but I'll never be performing circumcisions on flies at 50 paces.

Then again, I merely consider myself "proficient" … I clicked on this thread to read about "Really Good Shooters"

 

[seldon14]

Varies all the way up and down for me. Some guns I naturally shoot really well, some I naturally shoot really poorly. I can put time in with a gun I shoot poorly and improve, and I can take time with a gun I shoot well, and improve more.

I typically don't wast time on guns I naturally shoot really poorly (glock 19, several sig 320s amongst others) and invest that time in stuff I do shoot well (Smith 19, hi power and others). Sometime minor changes make a big difference. I shoot a Glock 17 pretty decent, 19 not at all. I shot the shield a bit below average for me, but invested time in it based off of what it could offer me as a carry weapon at the time. It's probably in my top 5 for proficiency at this point.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Hold all my guns at 6 o'clock. Most have adjustable sights. One or two shots with the others remind me where to put a spotter on the target to hit center mass.

Yes, I also have a few weapons that need "Kentucky windage" when brand "B" ammo is used........
or my cheat sheet is not at hand.

 

[AJ]

Hold all my guns at 6 o'clock. Most have adjustable sights. One or two shots with the others remind me where to put a spotter on the target to hit center mass.

Yes, I also have a few weapons that need "Kentucky windage" when brand "B" ammo is used........
or my cheat sheet is not at hand.

I learned that when in the Corps. We were not allowed to "adjust" the sights on the pistols that we drew from the Armory to qualify with. So you shot for a group and once you established where it was hitting, you put a spotter up so you could hit the bullseye. It the pistol was shooting low left your spotter went up high right.

 

[reddog81]

Grips that fit, a good trigger and sights up to the task make a big difference for me.

Too small or too large of grips makes it hard to get a consistent and comfortable grip. Too small and the gun trys to jump out of your hand with each shot. Too large and you'll be readjusting with each shot. Wood grips on revolvers look nice but often times the rubber grips will offer a better fit and less fatigue for extended shooting sessions.

A smooth trigger is very helpful for consistent shots. My GP100 had a many burs on the hammer strut when I bought it. After replacing that my DA group sizes got cut in half. The first thing I do with a new S&W revolver is change out the overly stiff rebound spring to drop the DA pull weight to something more reasonable.

Different sights are ideal for different types of shooting. A large fiber optic sight might be great for trying to hit steel targets quickly at 15 yards, but is a distinct disadvantage for me when trying to shoot small groups at 25 yards.

Changing any one of these 3 items can make a big difference in how a gun handles and shoots for you. I have many handguns and and can shoot most of then pretty well at 10 to 15 yards. Trying to get good groups at 25+ yards requires a setup built for the task. Some very good shooters might be able adjust and get any accurate gun to shoot well but most mortals will be affected nuisances of each firearm.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I consider myself an adequate shot, meaning I can easily hit center mass out to about 30 yards with my larger revolvers or semiautos, but generally, my groups get bigger as the caliber gets bigger, independent of the distance I'm shooting at. For .22LR at 10 yards, coffee cup or smaller, for a 9mm or .38/.357, a coffee saucer, for 10mm, .41, .44, or .45, a small pie plate, etc. As the range grows, so does the group.

At 30 yards, I could hit Costello, but might miss Abbott 1 out of 3.

 

[S&W Fan]

I like to think I'm a pretty decent shooter though by no means up to the standards of the bullseye folks-they're super human in my opinion. My shooting is typically along the lines of self defense drills and the occasional idpa style competition-not officially sanctioned but that's the closest I can compare our courses of fire.

For revolvers no doubt I shoot the 3" 64 NY-1 better than any other revolver I have now or ever had. For a semi I do my most accurate work with a custom built 1911 with a mostly stock Springfield Armory Ronin 9mm Commander running a tight second.

After those I do pretty much the same with the remainder. Frankly my vision-near sighted with a mild astigmatism, transitional no line bifocals-is the greatest limiting factor. Back when I was a ute (My Cousin Vinny reference haha) 50 yards was routine for shooting. These days I limit myself to 25 and I shoot about a minute of pie plate at that distance.

 

[AJ]

Any shooter worth his salt should be able to hit the target with any pistol/revolver. Sight alignment and trigger control is the main thing that has to be controlled in most firearms. Granted you do find some firearms that will not hit the broad side of a barn, but most will. Some group better than others.

 

[H Richard]

I feel I am was a reasonably adept shooter, and shot in a lot of different competitions over the years.

No, all my guns i can't shoot as well as some others. The fit to the hand, the length of pull, the feel of the trigger, the caliber vs the weight of the gun all play a part in accuracy.

I can normally shoot an out of the box revolver or semi auto "satisfactorily" out to 25 yards, but some I could shoot excellently.
A custom grip made to fit your hand makes a big difference.


A 1911 grip usually fits me very well. You can find your level of "Normal" accuracy and strive for at least 10-15 yard groups of 3-4".

 

[MajorD]

I could have a trophy wall much like H Richard above, and do pretty well with accuracy but never been real fast. Part of it is ahead game where going faster results in less accuracy for me and I always feel I shouldn't sacrifice accuracy for speed, but do understand the need to balance those out.
At one time one of our local law enforcement agencies shot a charity pistol match on the old police PPC course, which most of you know is more accuracy than speed Oriented.
In those matches we shot a revolver, service auto, snobby, and unlimited gun for four scores.
My old combat masterpiece was my revolver, my snub was a glock 26, my service was a glock 19 and my unlimited was a tuned 1911. In these matches my score across the four different guns was never more than 4 points so for example low at 468 and high of 472. While none were heavy kickers the fact that each one was different to a degree from the rest and the scores so similar tells something about my ability to make anything shoot well.
My friends call me a freak of nature as I can pick up just about any pistol and shoot it fairly well. Some people on the other hand find one certain gun that "fits" them and shoot that one extremely well, it can't transition to another gun with anywhere near the same performance.

 

[lrrifleman]

Rich,

A few contributors after my initial post have illustrated a key point which must be emphasized: the distinction of shooting for speed vs precision. In the run and gun type combat-style matches, ranking is determined by time plus an accuracy penalty. For example, go to gssfonline.com and pull up match results. You may notice that not all of the top ranked shooters in a match shoot clean scores, but getting close but not quite perfect minimizes the penalties when they shoot their pistols like machine guns.

On the flip side, traditional precision matches emphasize accuracy within a predetermined time, which all must perform within. Ergo, you have (a limited amount of) time to focus on trigger control and sight alignment. While in combat-style games speed can be your friend, in precision shooting, speed can be your enemy. Also, in the combat-style games, you aren't shooting a ten shot string, but more than likely one or two shots per target. You aren't shooting for groups. In combat shooting, your accuracy standard is minute of bad guy/threat. In precision shooting, your accuracy standard is minute of angle.

 

[max503]

I shoot lots of 22 and 38 special. For some reason, if I pick up a 1911 45 I can't hit squat for the first few mags. Guns take practice.

 

[AJ]

I shoot lots of 22 and 38 special. For some reason, if I pick up a 1911 45 I can't hit squat for the first few mags. Guns take practice.

All shooting requires practice.

 

[gwpercle]

Many years ago I competed for 12 years in NRA Bullseye Indoor Match , I think it's called Precision Match now days ... What makes the biggest Difference in precision shooting is ... the Trigger !
A Good trigger gives you much better scores .
My main competition 22 LR was , for years , a model 41 S&W , stock from the factory . One day at a gun show I picked up a stainless steel Ruger MKII standard that was wearing a Millet SP-1 red dot sight , impulse buy.. I owned no guns with red dot sights and wanted to try one . Shooting it revealed a marvelous trigger pull ... lets call it Magical ! A little investigation ... it had been sent to Clark Custom Guns to get the Millet SP-1 mounted and ... the big and... was it had a Target Trigger job done while there ... and my Oh My Goodness ... that sweet trigger allowed my scores to improve a lot ... I shot better scores with the ruger than the Model 41... I took the red dot sight off and tested it ...still better scores .
I put the S&W model 41 away , intending to bring it to Clark's for a Target Trigger job ... but life , wife , kids and career all short circuited my competition days . I still shoot the Ruger MKII w/ Millet SP-1 the most and one day I'm going to Clark's Custom and see about a trigger job for the S&W model 41 ... one day soon ... Clark's is a nice drive about 4 hours North West of Baton Rouge ... We make a weekend trip of it !
Gary

 

[Donn]

Really good? Depends I guess. I'm able to keep everything in the black, 22lr to 44mag and whatever I have in between. Good enough for me.

 

[wood714]

I'm far from being a really good shot, but I suck way less with my old 4" 10-8 with target stocks than I do with my 4" 686-1 with target stocks.

I seem to shoot better with fixed sights for some weird reason.

Many years I always shot low left with my pistols, then I figured out how to hold them. I'm a not bad shot with a semi now.

 

[AJ]

I learned that when in the Corps. We were not allowed to "adjust" the sights on the pistols that we drew from the Armory to qualify with. So you shot for a group and once you established where it was hitting, you put a spotter up so you could hit the bullseye. It the pistol was shooting low left your spotter went up high right.

Many years I always shot low left with my pistols, then I figured out how to hold them. I'm a not bad shot with a semi now.

This is what I was saying above. The use of spotters on a target can work wonders for a fixed sighted pistol.

I still do the same thing when I shoot a friend's gun. I see the sights 6 inchs lower than he does for some reason. If I aim a 6 o'clock on the bull with his gun I hit six inches low. Put a spotter six inches higher and I hit the bull with every shot if I do my part.

 

[Protocall_Design]

I shoot S&W revolvers all about equally well, from .22 LR to .44 MAG and everything in between. Shooting one S&W is very similar to shooting another. I can shoot all other types of guns, but not as well, having not spent as much time with them.

This is what I've been doing with S&W revos since 1979. The shooting matches represented here include Bullseye, PPC, Metallic Silhouette, IDPA, Swiss Pistol, Bowling Pin, and various local action type matches. I also shoot ICORE, but no trophies have been awarded at the matches I've been in.

There are awards from local, state, regional and world level events. The Trout trophy was for catching the most Rainbow Trout during a church sponsored outing.

 

[AJ]

I shoot S&W revolvers all about equally well, from .22 LR to .44 MAG and everything in between. Shooting one S&W is very similar to shooting another. I can shoot all other types of guns, but not as well, having not spent as much time with them.

This is what I've been doing with S&W revos since 1979. The shooting matches represented here include Bullseye, PPC, Metallic Silhouette, IDPA, Swiss Pistol, Bowling Pin, and various local action type matches. I also shoot ICORE, but no trophies have been awarded at the matches I've been in.

There are awards from local, state, regional and world level events. The Trout trophy was for catching the most Rainbow Trout during a church sponsored outing.

Very nice "I Love Me" room. Everybody needs one! I have two of those types of rooms.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Congrats on your many achievements, AJ!

I like to think of it more in terms of a lifetime of great memories with my friends and a testament to the quality of S&W revolvers. There are several people I love more than me.

 

[Laketime]

I shoot S&W revolvers all about equally well, from .22 LR to .44 MAG and everything in between. Shooting one S&W is very similar to shooting another. I can shoot all other types of guns, but not as well, having not spent as much time with them.

This is what I've been doing with S&W revos since 1979. The shooting matches represented here include Bullseye, PPC, Metallic Silhouette, IDPA, Swiss Pistol, Bowling Pin, and various local action type matches. I also shoot ICORE, but no trophies have been awarded at the matches I've been in.

There are awards from local, state, regional and world level events. The Trout trophy was for catching the most Rainbow Trout during a church sponsored outing.

What a burglary deterrent you have there

 

[mtgianni]

My eyes are to far gone to remain in a "really good" category. For me it is sights, trigger, grips, and balance, no particular order, then caliber.

 

[Protocall_Design]

What a burglary deterrent you have there

It has worked so far.

I've always thought the scariest sound for burglars in Jerry M's house would be the "beep" of a timer. For those who don't shoot matches, that's the signal to start shooting.

 

[22hipower]

There was an interesting display at the SWCA Symposium in Tulsa last week where the question of accuracy with different S&Ws was addressed. One of the members decided to see how 100 S&Ws would group; and fired one round with each of them at 50 feet; adjusted sights and fired each of them at another target. Pretty much one large ragged hole for the second target. Oh, and he brought all 100 guns with him as part of his display.

For those of you who aren't SWCA members, you might consider becoming members and for those who are, but haven't been to a Symposium, that would be a great next step. The next one, by the way, will be in North Carolina next June.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[TerryWhite]

Having multiple guns (more than two), is your accuracy approximately the same with all of them? (By "Really Good" I mean proficient with the higher calibers such as .357 magnum and .44 Magnum) but not excluding .22LR, .38spl, .44spl and 9mm.

Thanks and regards to all -

Rich

Hi,
I'm usually a lurker. Reading most posts and moving along.
You hit one with your post I hear a lot and couldn't help myself lol.

I was trained in the military as an instructor, later was an instructor with the Mecklenburg County sheriff's department until I retired.
I teach a few here and there now. Nothing major.

As has already been said a lot of factors go into firing any weapon and no two are ever the same. Even many identical brands and models can differ slightly.

Anyone with enough practice and training can learn to shoot very well and that muscle memory will always remain as long as you continue practice.

With that said it is possible for you to achieve very similar grouping with far different handguns as long as the weapon is capable of decent accuracy.
You would however have to practice individually with each weapon. Dry firing for all the different trigger breaks. Actual range time to make your skill level equal with each weapon.

A mid sized 9mm verses let's say a Smith&Wesson model 686 are going to be very different. But, not so different you can't overcome it.

The basic principles of shooting are the same regardless.

There are however some things you can't overcome and that's physics. That .357 magnum you will never be able to fire as rapidly as the 9mm and achieve the same grouping at say 20 yards.

Your accuracy can easily be the same just at a slower firing rate. There is simply too much recoil to overcome to get back on target at the same speed in calibers that far apart.

Basically the best answer is the same I tell many asking the same question.
All weapons being equally accurate. The answer is yes and no.

Yes you can definitely fire all with the same or very similar accuracy.
Unfortunately, no when it comes to how rapidly you want to shoot.

Practice with all of them as much as possible and accuracy will equal out. Even better with larger barrel weapons. As far as firing rate. .22 to .9mm I can get back on my point of aim very quickly. My .40 calibers, .357 or 44 magnums it takes longer and that's the one part you really can't change.

I shoot a lot of 3 gun but I will always choose accuracy over speed everytime.

I hope this is of some help. I know it's not a perfect answer but there honestly is no perfect answer.
Practice with them equally. Most of all have fun and the rest will take care if itself.

Great question... excellent answers too.

 

[kelzie]

For me I have always made a point in remembering how and where each gun will group then compensate my hold to find center mass.I've never understood why some shooters I see with a fixed sighted gun print a nice group either above or below the bullseye and continuing to hold at 6 o'clock.

There's good reason for the six o'clo Hold. It's much easier to see the sights (and the daylight on both sides of the front sight) against the white background below the bull than against the black of the bull. Also, one must first learn how to get good groups if they ever hope to shoot accurately. It's best to learn and use the 6:00 hold to get good groups before worrying about moving the group. Then, if your gun has adjustable sights, it's easy to move your group to center mass (or 6:00, or wherever you want). With fixed sights, it's more difficult, but doable. If one has the skills, it's sometimes possible (with a preferred load) to modify fixed sights.

 

[Squib_Load]

Am I a really good shooter? I think so, but how do I know? I don't compete and so I don't compare scores. Over the decades I've encountered many guys at the range who say that their new gun is lousy. I ask if I can give it a try and - shoot one hole groups.

It doesn't matter whether it's a 22LR or a 500 S&W Mag. I do pretty good because I don't anticipate the recoil.

My trigger finger is absolutely independent of the grip I have on the pistol. Only the trigger finger moves. I don't tighten my grip on the pistol when I pull the trigger.