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imjin138
US Veteran
Thanks for all the neat replies, I love the photos
Tom Horn
- Thread starter imjin138
- Start date
Wyatt Burp
Member
Where is this great gun?! In all my reference books about this stuff, this Rem. has never popped up.I sure would be proud to own this gun.
I googled Tom Horn's Remington revolver and came up with a 2007 auction flyer indicating it sold for $86+K
Firearms - March 2007 Selected Highlights
Firearms - March 2007 Selected Highlights
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
My, my, my! Man oh man, that made my eyes water! What we have here is a revolver given to tom horn by a groupee. Horn probley never used it on any of his exploits. It sold for a fortune. Now, I have wrote before of owning and loseing a colt new frontier that audie murphy had bought new. Now, it is said that audie was the most decorated war hero in the history of this country. Also a big movie star. He was the biggest bonafied war hero. Question: If horns remington went for $86,250s, what should my murphy gun that was well documented be worth?
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
The costipation I can use, but not harding of the arterys!
george minze
Member
What a great story. I worked for the PRCA during my annual leave, always worked Frontier days and stayed a The Hitching Post until 82. As a Marshal I worked for Justice JP Morgan who had a connection with with a air service owner who was a Frontier days "Heel" Morgan and a fellow from Mo. named Lineberger???(SLT) and two guys from Cheyenne owned or had control of a large tract of land north of Cheyenne. A fellow that was Chief of police in Cheyenne, I heard he later became Sheriff there., Rudy ??? talked to me once about going to Rock Springs and working UC for some task force. I passed and from these story's I glad. I do remember about Bill Jordan testifying for Cantrell. I wanted to go to the trial but due to my position it was not advisable. One thing did surprise me was Tom Horn wasn't considered the hero us folks not from Wyoming thought he was. My main job during Frontier Days was keeping the PRCA cowboys out of jail as much as possible. Not an easy job back then....I loved Cheyenne. Tough amazingly it really seems to be more of an eastern or mid west city except during frontier days. Any stories you hear about Frontier Days are probably true, if not should be.. Thanks for the info Iggy a real treat...
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I got to tell this story: In 1961 I worked for the park service in the tetons. Jackson was about 25 miles south of moose, our camp, and we would go there often. (Drinking & illegal blackjack in the bars.)
The town had a skit several times a day. A stagecoach would haul ass through town and be held up by Clover the killer. Clover was a old one eyed colorfull character. They would have a trial and hang clover. It was quite a tourist draw for the town and sometimes maybe 1,500 tourists would watch on the square.
This one day I came out of a establishment and beheld one hell of a fight. I thought these boys are good! The town was ropped off for the skit and traffic was stopped and four guys were doing their best to kill each other with at least a 1,000 people watching.
It soon dawned on me that this wasnt the regular event and this was real blood. One guy was knocked cold. A girlfriend of his was crying over him and asking people to throw him in her car. It seemed everyone was dumbfounded and wouldnt move. I went over, picked him up and threw him over my shoulder and as she started to lead me to her car, he come to, thought I was his antagonist, and bit my ear good! Well, he soon was out again, I threw him in the car and went back to watch the action with the other two. The fight had broke out with a local indian, the guy I threw in the car, (turned out that one was a marine deserter) those two against a pair of rodeo riders that was passing through. All were drunk or in their cups. Why it wasnt broke up by local LEO, I can only speculate.
I never in my life seen a man take as bad a beating as that drunk indian was getting, he was dieing on his knees, it looked to me. The cowboy was about 6ft 4"s, skinny as a rail. He had wore himself out beating on the indian but somehow couldnt knock him out. The indian was bleeding out of his ears, nose and elsewhere. He couldnt stand but would crawl on his knees after the cowboy and try to put his arms around the cowboys legs as the cowboy tried to walk off!
Since no one else would stop it, I did. (It wasnt hard). I got to know all participants as the summer wore on. The incident did make me fairly popular with some of the business owners in jackson, and I had a good time of it when I would come to town rest of the summer.
That same night after the fight I and 3 or 4 co-workers of mine went into the silver dollar bar, I belive. The owner came up to me and said, are these boys at least as old as you? I said yes. It was funny because I was just 20, and the youngest of them! We had it made for the rest of the season! Unfortunately, thats when I learned blackjack, and that seemed to keep me mostly broke untill now!
The town had a skit several times a day. A stagecoach would haul ass through town and be held up by Clover the killer. Clover was a old one eyed colorfull character. They would have a trial and hang clover. It was quite a tourist draw for the town and sometimes maybe 1,500 tourists would watch on the square.
This one day I came out of a establishment and beheld one hell of a fight. I thought these boys are good! The town was ropped off for the skit and traffic was stopped and four guys were doing their best to kill each other with at least a 1,000 people watching.
It soon dawned on me that this wasnt the regular event and this was real blood. One guy was knocked cold. A girlfriend of his was crying over him and asking people to throw him in her car. It seemed everyone was dumbfounded and wouldnt move. I went over, picked him up and threw him over my shoulder and as she started to lead me to her car, he come to, thought I was his antagonist, and bit my ear good! Well, he soon was out again, I threw him in the car and went back to watch the action with the other two. The fight had broke out with a local indian, the guy I threw in the car, (turned out that one was a marine deserter) those two against a pair of rodeo riders that was passing through. All were drunk or in their cups. Why it wasnt broke up by local LEO, I can only speculate.
I never in my life seen a man take as bad a beating as that drunk indian was getting, he was dieing on his knees, it looked to me. The cowboy was about 6ft 4"s, skinny as a rail. He had wore himself out beating on the indian but somehow couldnt knock him out. The indian was bleeding out of his ears, nose and elsewhere. He couldnt stand but would crawl on his knees after the cowboy and try to put his arms around the cowboys legs as the cowboy tried to walk off!
Since no one else would stop it, I did. (It wasnt hard). I got to know all participants as the summer wore on. The incident did make me fairly popular with some of the business owners in jackson, and I had a good time of it when I would come to town rest of the summer.
That same night after the fight I and 3 or 4 co-workers of mine went into the silver dollar bar, I belive. The owner came up to me and said, are these boys at least as old as you? I said yes. It was funny because I was just 20, and the youngest of them! We had it made for the rest of the season! Unfortunately, thats when I learned blackjack, and that seemed to keep me mostly broke untill now!
george minze
Member
the Silver Dollar Bar Remember when Ol Waylon would would go there and perform? (at a very reduced rate) What a place....Been years.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I dont remember whalon, but I do remember a cowgirl band. About 4 chicks that were good and the mainstay there. Dont know if they ever made it big. A close friend of mines father was one of the owners of the wort hotel & bar. Used to be a log cabin assemblies of god church there. It was ran by two nice young single girls. One was the preacher. The average sunday was maybe 15 people. They lived in the combined parsonage with the church. I kind of lightly courted the girls. I would come to town, take over a couple cases of coke, visited the girls for a couple hours, they were my age, then I would leave and hit the bars gamble etc.
I sure liked that cowboy chuckwagon going out of town to the north. I remember us boys going back for fourths or so, and the grizzeled old cook asking us, should he call a doctor?
I also remember a old gunsmith and small shop on a side street. He had the scariest, uglyist dog I ever seen. It looked like it was more mountain lion than dog! Then, there was a very old small man that ran a photography shop. Seemed he was a trainer or promoter many years ago for jack dempsey and jacks older brother jack! He told me a few good storys!
I worked the park in 1961. It seems I go through there about every 7 years or so since. I spent a few days there in the late 70s, I was flying a light plane I own to wisconsin and decided to spend a day or two. Another time I rode through on my harley.
Its a ritch mans town. Sure is a nice place to spend a day!
I sure liked that cowboy chuckwagon going out of town to the north. I remember us boys going back for fourths or so, and the grizzeled old cook asking us, should he call a doctor?
I also remember a old gunsmith and small shop on a side street. He had the scariest, uglyist dog I ever seen. It looked like it was more mountain lion than dog! Then, there was a very old small man that ran a photography shop. Seemed he was a trainer or promoter many years ago for jack dempsey and jacks older brother jack! He told me a few good storys!
I worked the park in 1961. It seems I go through there about every 7 years or so since. I spent a few days there in the late 70s, I was flying a light plane I own to wisconsin and decided to spend a day or two. Another time I rode through on my harley.
Its a ritch mans town. Sure is a nice place to spend a day!
George, you are probably talking about Rudy Restivo.
When Casey Tibbs won the saddle bronc one year, I drove his purple Continental into the arena and took him on a victory lap.
The rodeo security took a dim view of that, but the Frontier Committee intervened. They couldn't have their Champeen goin' to jail, and they hustled me out of there in a hurry too.
I did stay out of town for a while.
Later, I got to meet many of the night show entertainers and got them to make radio safety spots for accident prevention on Wyoming's highways for me. Most of them were really nice folks, but was a couple of them that their hat's fit their heads purty tight.
Jordan testified that Ed could beat him to the draw.
That was just some of Spence's theatrics.
I've seen both of them draw and Ed wouldn't have had a prayer.
Back in Tom Horn's day the homesteaders and little guys in this part of country viewed Tom as a back shootin' thug.
He just didn't shoot the one that got him in deep doo-doo.
Feralmerril,
That Silver Dollar bar was some kinda place. You just never knew who would show up in there.
Lots of movie stars spent their spare time and money in that place when they was makin' movies in the "Hole"
Now the "billionaires" has crowded out the "millionaires" They had to move to Pinedale or Cody to find diggin's they can afford.
When Casey Tibbs won the saddle bronc one year, I drove his purple Continental into the arena and took him on a victory lap.
The rodeo security took a dim view of that, but the Frontier Committee intervened. They couldn't have their Champeen goin' to jail, and they hustled me out of there in a hurry too.
I did stay out of town for a while.
Later, I got to meet many of the night show entertainers and got them to make radio safety spots for accident prevention on Wyoming's highways for me. Most of them were really nice folks, but was a couple of them that their hat's fit their heads purty tight.
Jordan testified that Ed could beat him to the draw.
That was just some of Spence's theatrics.
I've seen both of them draw and Ed wouldn't have had a prayer.
Back in Tom Horn's day the homesteaders and little guys in this part of country viewed Tom as a back shootin' thug.
He just didn't shoot the one that got him in deep doo-doo.
Feralmerril,
That Silver Dollar bar was some kinda place. You just never knew who would show up in there.
Lots of movie stars spent their spare time and money in that place when they was makin' movies in the "Hole"
Now the "billionaires" has crowded out the "millionaires" They had to move to Pinedale or Cody to find diggin's they can afford.
scattershot
Member
Great post, Iggy. I used to hunt in Brown's Park (Brown's Hole) Colorado, where Isom Dart's grave is. Matt Rash's cabin is a short distance away, and it was pretty spooky standing in the doorway of that old cabin. You could almost see old Tom taking a bead with his Winchester from a pile of rocks nearby.
Back in Tom Horn's day the homesteaders and little guys in this part of country viewed Tom as a back shootin' thug.
He just didn't shoot the one that got him in deep doo-doo.
I think everyone pretty much agrees that we will never know for sure if Horn killed Willie Nickell, but by the time he got to trial both sides had decided he really needed to go. The little guys had hated him for years, and he knew way too much for the big guys' comfort. Tom had worn out his welcome in this part of the country! Whether he actually shot Willie or not, he probably deserved hangin' for a lot of the other stuff he'd done. At least, that's what most folks thought and I don't believe anyone was sad to see him go. (Understanding, of course, that Iggy has some doubt about whether he "went" at all).
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Yup, Ol Tom had outlived his time.
I suspect he really was the guy under the hood that day, but we'll never know.
I've heard tell that who ever is buried down there in Boulder CO is entombed in a solid block of concrete so nobody can dig him up.
I think mebbe Elvis is in there too.
I suspect he really was the guy under the hood that day, but we'll never know.
I've heard tell that who ever is buried down there in Boulder CO is entombed in a solid block of concrete so nobody can dig him up.
I think mebbe Elvis is in there too.
Fun thread. Thanks, guys.
Some of you guys, in addition to what Iggy does, really, ought to write your memoirs. Just lay it out, like ya do here. Like you, Feral.
When my dad died, 15 years ago now, I came across a manuscript he'd been handwriting about his life. It was about 75 pages on a yellow legal pad, and the dickens to read 'cause he had bad handwriting and couldn't spell a lick. It was interesting to me, tho. What I wound up doing was hiring a guy in India, who I found on the internet, whose daughter typed it all up for $140, and then I hired another guy, a printer in PA I found on the internet, to privately publish a couple dozen book copies for my siblings, their kids, my kids, coupla cousins, my mom, and me. It made a great gift to the family. Everybody loves it.
Some of you guys, in addition to what Iggy does, really, ought to write your memoirs. Just lay it out, like ya do here. Like you, Feral.
When my dad died, 15 years ago now, I came across a manuscript he'd been handwriting about his life. It was about 75 pages on a yellow legal pad, and the dickens to read 'cause he had bad handwriting and couldn't spell a lick. It was interesting to me, tho. What I wound up doing was hiring a guy in India, who I found on the internet, whose daughter typed it all up for $140, and then I hired another guy, a printer in PA I found on the internet, to privately publish a couple dozen book copies for my siblings, their kids, my kids, coupla cousins, my mom, and me. It made a great gift to the family. Everybody loves it.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
In 61 many of the saloons had illegal wide open gambling. Somehow they had a tip-off system. It would be wide open a few nights than queit the next with no evidence of the tables to be seen! I remember this one dealer kept a claw hammer always in reach on his table to settle arguments. Looked pretty inocent to nieve people I guess!
I always liked Afton wyoming. Freedom, of Freedom Arms is just a couple miles up the road. And if you like airplanes as I do, aviatt aircraft co. makes some cool planes there. I dont know if the buidings are still at kelly wyoming where they filmed shane or not, but it was neat. I had a six month appointment in the tetons and it was some of the best time of my life. There was about 20 of us guys that worked for the park service and we lived together in a bunk house at moose, and you can imangine how that was. Three of us in the group had cars, so they all would chip together a few cents each and kept me busy nights hauling everybody back & forth from jackson.
We were playing cards late one night when there was a knock at the door. Two dudes had been treed by a bull moose since early that morning, that night the moose had finaly walked off a distance. They seen the lights on our buckhouse far below them so they dropped out of the tree and ran to us.
I remember one of the guys couldnt hold his liquer well and was in a dead sleep. A couple of the boys carried him sleeping in his bunk outside in the sun. He never woke up and he got badly burned! There was always something going on!
I always liked Afton wyoming. Freedom, of Freedom Arms is just a couple miles up the road. And if you like airplanes as I do, aviatt aircraft co. makes some cool planes there. I dont know if the buidings are still at kelly wyoming where they filmed shane or not, but it was neat. I had a six month appointment in the tetons and it was some of the best time of my life. There was about 20 of us guys that worked for the park service and we lived together in a bunk house at moose, and you can imangine how that was. Three of us in the group had cars, so they all would chip together a few cents each and kept me busy nights hauling everybody back & forth from jackson.
We were playing cards late one night when there was a knock at the door. Two dudes had been treed by a bull moose since early that morning, that night the moose had finaly walked off a distance. They seen the lights on our buckhouse far below them so they dropped out of the tree and ran to us.
I remember one of the guys couldnt hold his liquer well and was in a dead sleep. A couple of the boys carried him sleeping in his bunk outside in the sun. He never woke up and he got badly burned! There was always something going on!
mjr
Member
What he said. Good stuff.
george minze
Member
Well here's one can't remember the year. Some names must remain blank. I not up on the statues of limitations. When Tanya Tucker was headlining the rodeo Show, and Ricky and the Red Streaks were in the lounge and then in big room at hitching post. A certain cowboy from the Neb.Reds. bit her on the butt right on stage. Her boy friend back then was a Texas brock rider that was one tough SOB. While Tanya had asked me not to mention it to boyfriend (name with-held) because he would make scene. Of course they fly in to make the go-around and were going back upstate to ride the next night. Tanya couldn't wait to tell him as the Red's cowboy was at HP again . Best damn bare knuckle fight I ever saw. I had to get them out of the HP into parking lot. the guy from the Red's eye was almost on his cheek but he hung in there. For years an attorney tried to get a hold of me. Of course I couldn't remember any names. My comment was "Are you kidding you want me to remember ONE fight' at Frontier Days......... Casey was always playing jokes he tried it at the Shy Clown Casino in Sparks Nv during Reno Rodeo. He had been hired to be master of ceremonies at the Shy Clown for the week. Bunch of high rollers, great food and top entertainment. They paid Casey to be there because he was still famous or infamous depending how you looked at it. The Clown had a horse trailer for a drawing and Casey borrowed it as a joke and hid it. As a joke the GM got a phony warrant for Casey from Sparks Magistrate Court and Washoe County Deputies came in and arrested Casey. the Deputies were in on the joke and so was the old magistrate. Threw him in jail, but in Sparks not Reno. We waited about an hour and went and bailed him out (he thought we bailed him out) of course it was all a set up. But to give him his due he could take it as well as give it out. Him and Mahan were from a different breed. A different time but damn they had personality. After working those jobs I was glad and safer going back to Judicial protection. Judges might get drunk but they didn't get on tables and drop their Wranglers and moon the crowd. I did that part time job for eight years six rodeo's a year, used all my annual leave ever year, and only got one broken nose. Glade some one on this web is from the real West and remembers some of the real characters that now are a dieing breed. In those days no medical help at rodeo, no trainers, and no show up money. You got down the road as best you could. God Bless em they were Americana.....As crazy as i was in those days I had enough sense to stay away from the Rock Springs deal. Never did learn the real story, except it was on "City Confidential" years ago I agree I saw Jordan shoot once, Cantrell couldn't have beat him in any thing. Jordan was a big old boy even in his I guess 70s. He was a legend in the federal service.
Casey was definitely a character. He caused a ruckus in the Brown Palace in Denver one time during the Stock Show. We didn't git the taters, but we got our steaks for free that night. We had to eat them steaks in his car, we din't have no forks, but they was free.
I gave up on the rodeo circuit pretty quick. I could see that the medical bills was gonna be more than the winnings. I helped Jim Shoulders at Denver one year. He was on crutches. We helped in up into the chute onto a scotch highlander bull called Dennis the Menace. He rode him for the full 8, untied himself and fell off. We came out and carried him back behind the chutes. A TV reporter asked him "How can you do that?" Jim said, "I cry all the way to the bank."
Talking about Bill Jordan. His hands were huge. He had special Herrert grips on his gun. That Model 19 looked like a J-frame in his mitts. Lordy he was quick with that gun.
Would you believe that the HP is closed, boarded up, and abandoned?
I gave up on the rodeo circuit pretty quick. I could see that the medical bills was gonna be more than the winnings. I helped Jim Shoulders at Denver one year. He was on crutches. We helped in up into the chute onto a scotch highlander bull called Dennis the Menace. He rode him for the full 8, untied himself and fell off. We came out and carried him back behind the chutes. A TV reporter asked him "How can you do that?" Jim said, "I cry all the way to the bank."
Talking about Bill Jordan. His hands were huge. He had special Herrert grips on his gun. That Model 19 looked like a J-frame in his mitts. Lordy he was quick with that gun.
Would you believe that the HP is closed, boarded up, and abandoned?
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george minze
Member
I had heard the Paul Smith had died, didn't know it was closed. Paul's dad was still the boss when I first went out there. It has been a long time. I have not been in Cheyenne since 86. i was damned near killed in an airplane crash in 86 on a fugitive detail, and never got back out there. In fact that about curtailed my off duty assignments after I went back to work in 87. court assignments with a few involvements in fugitive stuff intermittently until I retired in 2000. Sad to hear that it was a mix of the old and new, food was good and history even better. I know I'm dating myself but I first went out there when I was assigned Supreme Court duty in late 70s. Larry Mahan was a friend of mine and I only took the job there because it would be fun. I got stuck on it and ended up doing Reno, Houston Fat Stock Show, NFR in Oke City, never in Vegas, Denver stock show.and Cow Palace. It was my trip into insanity time of life. If what I did wasn't bad enough. Hell I loved it. Time just marches on.
The HP is, indeed, closed down for now but some new buyers want to open it back up (from what the local paper said). It was where the state legislators stayed for many, many years during the two week legislative session. Don't know where they are staying come February.
Iggy or Wyo, if you ever make it to Cheyenne I would be honored to meet either of you. I am there for a few days about once a month. I'll buy dinner.
wyo-man
Iggy or Wyo, if you ever make it to Cheyenne I would be honored to meet either of you. I am there for a few days about once a month. I'll buy dinner.
wyo-man
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I have read the Tom Horn Trial transcripts.
It has been a while so I am going from memory, but at one point Tom was asked why he did not use the more powerful 30/40 Krag, instead of the 30/30...
He replied ' When I kill a man, I like to get close'....
It is also "rumored" that he killed a few people [7 ???] near Dinsoaur Valley in Colorado, before he went to Wyoming....
It has been a while so I am going from memory, but at one point Tom was asked why he did not use the more powerful 30/40 Krag, instead of the 30/30...
He replied ' When I kill a man, I like to get close'....
It is also "rumored" that he killed a few people [7 ???] near Dinsoaur Valley in Colorado, before he went to Wyoming....
george minze
Member
Remember the year the Thunderbird's had the crash in the rodeo ground, I was there and at a party that night as I was going to HP I heard the commotion. I know they had to build a wooden bridge over what was left of the plane so you could go to the chutes. I think a real good bull was killed as plane landed. That plane was a two seater had the pilot and crew chief in it, the crew chief ejected safely the pilot stayed with the plane to keep from crashing in to homes and the Indian village. He finally ejected way to late he was found in a taco and tamale stand. He was a real hero he could have ejected with the crew chief but chose to ride it down."Greater love hath no man than to give his life for another" God Bless him and all that serve our country, they deserve all that we can give them...
NE450No2
A Krag would have been pretty bulky in a saddle scabbard.
Tom bragged about his long shots, but I don't think many of them were very long.
George, I remember when that happened, I think I was stationed in Green River about then.
I don't think the Blue Angels have ever been back to Cheyenne after that.
A Krag would have been pretty bulky in a saddle scabbard.
Tom bragged about his long shots, but I don't think many of them were very long.
George, I remember when that happened, I think I was stationed in Green River about then.
I don't think the Blue Angels have ever been back to Cheyenne after that.
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george minze
Member
Was it Angles or Thunderbird's hell my 70 year old brain just forgets. Selective memory. One hell of a rodeo though. the Granddaddy of them all. No joke only rodeo I saw chuck wagon races.
The book came out about two weeks ago. The name is "Wyoming Range War" by John W. Davis. I'm about halfway through it and am learning new stuff every time I read a few pages. It's available through Amazon.com. Pick up a copy if you like western history - it's a whole new spin on an old story.
