training collar vs invisable fence

[Kevin G]

Situation is we've got an 8mo old golden pup that's recently developed an independent streak with respect to obedience, in particular coming when called. Also have a 4yr old and have had 3 goldens previously where this issue was not as big. Don't have kids and am wondering if some type of Celestial Payback is at work here for my childhood hijinks.

Have a large 5 acre mostly wooded, sloped lot with a fairly busy road about 250' in front of our house. The ground is extremely ledgey, what lawn exists was planted atop trucked in topsoil.

Biggest fear is having Bella hit by a car. Attraction for her going in front of the house down toward the road is that portion of the yard gets a lot of nocturnal visitor activity and the scents are quite interesting.
Been reading up on options. I don't see the buried wire system being practical due to the difficulty in digging. Wireless fencing info I've seen says it doesn't work well w/a sloped yard.

I'm inclined to go w/a training collar. I realize that this route requires direct supervision(initially I hope)but am hopeful w/time and training she'll both improve obedience-wise and get an understanding of her space.

Would appreciate some informed thoughts.
Tks, Kevin

 

[m1gunner]

Put in a real fence. The dog will only obey you when you are around or in range. I have seen dogs know within 2 days of when the invisable fence was either off or the collar was dead.

If you have a large fenced yard, the dog doesn't see it as confinement. You can always take the dog to a larger area to play, but it needs to be fenced when not under your direct supervision.

Goldens tend to like to wander and visit. Labs are downright escape artists. I had one that could open most gates faster than I could.

I wouldn't have a dog without a fence.

 

[USAF385]

How obedient is your dog? My brother and I split 102 acres that we bought from our folks. 17+ years ago when we got our new puppy, he was outside often as soon as he could get around well enough. We'd be outside with him and anytime he would head toward anywhere we didn't want him to go, we would verbally or physically (not smack, just redirect) correct him. He soon learned where he wasn't allowed to go. It got to the point where every morning we would let him out to walk the perimeter (of our yard) by himself. It took him about an hour.. stopping to smell the smells and poke around, but every morning he'd walk the same route clockwise, and come right back to our back door when he was done.

Granted, the nearest road was a dirt road big enough for one car at a time, and there wasn't any traffic on it. He was very obedient though. We'd go for walk up in the woods and he'd wander around exploring. If he got too far away, a simple whistle would get him back to our side.

Even in his later years, he would walk the same route he walked for years and never wander. Once he knew where he was allowed to go by himself, he never strayed.

He passed away this January at the ripe old age of 17 years

This is my buddy Waggs, when he was about 15.

 

[BarbC]

The training collar will require direct supervision always because, as you've realized, you still have to be around to make the correction. If you're out of sight, you're out of mind.

A training collar is great for certain negative behaviors, like digging or chewing.

I don't believe in using it as a shortcut for teaching positive behaviors, like teaching a dog to come.

At 8 months, the puppy is old enough for puppy obedience classes, so look for one in your area.

 

[Kevin G]

Barb C & and Others, Tks for your responses. This particular dog seems to be a bit more hard headed than others we've had. She's been thru puppy and regular obedience classes and done quite well.
Behavior is relatively new, instructor told me is not unusual for a dog at this age to go thru a defiant stage which we did experience w/others. Bella has brought new limits to this though.
We've always had Goldens in pairs. As mentioned, we've also got a 4yr old. Dynamics in the past have been that the new, younger dog generally took her q's from the older dog. Made training pretty easy. Present dynamic is that pup is the STRONG alpha and in some instances the older dog's influence is not nearly as helpful as w/previous pairs.
I don't view a collar or invisable fence as a substitute for proper training. I do believe we'll get her compass headed North, in the mean time I would like some form of assistance to keep her away from the road.
Tks, Kevin

 

[Stonecove]

Kevin, I feel your pain! I have a 9 month old chocolate Lab that is an alpha type and we are having similar problems. Our previous chocolate was property trained like USAF described, but THIS ONE is a challange. I looked at both the invisible fense and training collar and decided to try it the old fashoined way. I am using a 50 foot check lead whenever she is free to roam. Someone is always with her. If she starts to wander too far, grab the end of the check cord and call her back. Praise her with treats. The treats are very helpful and I always try to have some in my pocket. If I want her out when I can not supervise her directly, I tie off the check cord to prevent escape. It's not pretty, but we are making progress.
Good Luck,
Stonecove

 

[krissylou]

Having an 8 to 9 month old golden or lab, is akin to having a teenager in your house.

By your own admission, your older golden is not the alpha, but your pup is. Your pup is not going to listen to the 4 y.o. and take clues as to what is acceptable. You are going to have to show the pup that you are actually the alpha and you are the one that sets the boundaries.

If you do not want your pup in your front yard, why not put up a real fence of some type at the front edge or back edge of your house? That way your pup would have free roam of the back yard and you wouldn't have to worry about her getting near the road and possibly getting hit.

 

[Hofstet]

We have three labs (all males and very energetic) on 2.5 acres. Have had the Invisible Fence for 8+ years and found it to be very reliable in containing our loved ones. They will not go within 10' of our property line (even when retrieving their "ducks" if they bounce past the line) and I rarely have the shock collars on them. I use a Tritonics collar on one of my yellows for duck hunting, but usually do not have to use it to correct his behavior. I believe the electronic systems are no replacement for sound disciplinary training when they're young, but rather a great "support" system.

If you're concerned about digging the cable I don't think it's a big deal as it only needs to be buried a few inches in the ground. My friend lives on a lake and had his Invisible Fence installed on each side of his property line 80 feet into the lake. Works great.
IMO the initial training with the dog and acclimating him to the electric fence is extremely important and usually takes a couple of weeks training. People that say the "fence" doesn't work usually didn't spend the time required to train the dog initially.

 

[gunlovingirl]

Just my 2 cents....There is no substitute for hands on training. Invisible fences do work. To an extent. But as someone else mentioned, dogs learn by repetition, and they will figure out when and how to beat it! If the terrain allows, I would put up a real fence. And start obedience training.

 

[BarbC]

What about an electric horse fence? They're fairly cheap to install. It's easy to put the metal posts into the ground and the wire is easy to repair. You can even get it solar powered. I would start the first wire about 6" from the ground, the second one about 12" above that one, and the next one about 12" above that. They "snap" when damp too, so that's always a good warning not to come too close.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Put in a real fence. The dog will only obey you when you are around or in range. I have seen dogs know within 2 days of when the invisable fence was either off or the collar was dead.

If you have a large fenced yard, the dog doesn't see it as confinement. You can always take the dog to a larger area to play, but it needs to be fenced when not under your direct supervision.

Goldens tend to like to wander and visit. Labs are downright escape artists. I had one that could open most gates faster than I could.

I wouldn't have a dog without a fence.

+1 Bubba, my old lab could get out of a fenced yard in about 5 seconds when he decided he wanted to go walkies. My wife would get a phone call from one of the main street merchants that he was walking down the street, or swimming in the Bayou and she would have to go get him. God I miss that dog.

 

[Landpimp]

heck I got a 8week yellow(white actaully) male lab.....he is my 5th

front yard is fully fenced....and will just train him like all the rest..

my neighbor had a ACD, had a invisible fence and colar, he came over to see my dogs everyday once his owner left...........and home. I told the neigbor this one day. Turns out he was so darn smart, he would sit to wear the colar would just go off a bit......and wear the battery down.....then pretended when owner was home that it still worked.....when he left.....so did the dog.......smart SOB

 

[liv2hunt]

Invisible fence

I have had a invisible fence for 3 yrs best investment ever have had 3-5 dogs in in with no problems, most stuborn beagles. They wont even cross it to chase the neighbors little mexican rat dogs

 

[ChuckS1]

Go with the invisible fence

I have a now-10 year old golden and an invisible fence and it works great. Dusty is very respectful of the boundary and won't go near it, even when I have the collar off to recharge. I have 10 acres fences so he can go down to the barn and pasture. First off, don't buy the wire with the unit. Go to Lowes or Home Depot and get it for about a quarter of the cost. Second, I didn't bury mine, but left it in the woods and tacked to the pasture fence. Third, go to Mouser.com and buy the waterproof wire splice nut thingies (whatever they're called). They're extremely cheap and you can buy as many or as few as you want. I definitely recommend buying extras.

Took Dusty a couple of times getting zapped to learn about the fence, but he definitely stays on the reservation now.

 

[jkc]

A friend uses a device to restrict his dogs that is comprised of a radio transmitter and receivers on the dogs' collars. The signal strength of the transmitter is adjustable for range. The collars have a warning buzzer that alerts the dogs that they're straying near the limit of their allowable range. If they stray farther, they get a shock. These dogs used to greet me enthusiastically at the perimeter gate. Now, they hang back at the "shock warning" range, and won't even approach the perimeter. This system doesn't require your presence, involves no infrastructure, and seems to work. There have been a few escapes over time, but I'm inclined to attribute them to improperly maintained and operated equipment (low batteries on the collars, etc.) rather than flawed design. Perhaps worth a look...

 

[Minnesota Fats]

I, too, have always had Goldens in pairs. Currently, I have an older female and an alpha male (not neutered). I live in the country and have used the training collar on him since he was about 6 months. Nothing is more frustrating than having a dog that won't come to the command. I have used the electronic collar on my male with great success. The collar I have (Dogtra) has constant correction, nick correction, and vibrate correction. For the most part, it didn't take long for the male to realize that if he didn't respond to the vibrate, then a nick would follow. And if he didn't respond to the nick, a more powerful constant page would follow (very seldom). He actually gets excited about getting the collar put on, since it means that we are going to play, go for a walk, or go hunting. One short vibrate and he immediately stops what he is doing and comes back to my side.
I have seen these collars being abused on other dogs and I would recommend that if you decide to use one, the first thing you should do is strap it to your ankle and give yourself a jolt. Turn the dial up and do it again. You can then see for yourself what you are correcting your dog with. Electronic collars are not a shortcut for proper training, but I consider it a great tool to compliment the training.
Good luck

 

[4406v]

I have two black labs, a male and a female.I had a really hard time teaching my dogs to come when called by name.I had a really bad experience with my male not coming when called and running away repeatedly while out in the woods during the fall.I went home and decided which collar I was buying cost being no object.I bought a CABELAS gun dog series made by INNOTEK that has two collars and one controller.I tried the collar on myself before I put it on the dogs so I would know how it felt.I absolutely love my dogs and use the collars for thier protection and believe me they mind thier p's and q's when the collars are on.Before the collars I would call them and basically get the finger,now when I call them I have thier undivided attention it's like "DID YOU SAY MY NAME??" ON THE WAY BOSS!!!

You will not regret the money spent when you have an attentive pet paying attention to your commands.
I would also recommend the Cabelas branded collars as the first one I bought went bad after about a year and a half,I returned it with my reciept and was given a full refund which I applied to the new Cabelas brand collar.They stand behind the products they sell 100%