Transitioning From Concealed Carry Without Brandishing

[38-44HD45]

As is true of lots of other folks I know, the advent of CHL statutes just made me an honest man. I carried for years before it was legal to do so, knowing that it was far, far more likely that I'd need a gun to protect myself than it was that I'd be "made" or searched. Since I didn't make a practice of breaking any other laws, I didn't worry about violating a grossly unconstitutional statutory prohibition. Most of the folks I knew in law enforcement back then in my part of the world(and there were lots of them) looked the other way with regard to good people "unlawfully" carrying, knowing that the folks they were most likely to have to handle couldn't care less that there was a law against carrying a gun, given that they were committing real crimes. There is a difference between good people carrying a gun with the hope that they don't have to use it, and scumbags carrying with plans to use it. Reality is not a concept understood or cared about by far too many legislators, and violation of an idiotic law doesn't make anyone a bad person, just like rigid adherence to "being legal" doesn't make anyone good. My opinion, worth just as much as you paid.

 

[jj2am44]

FWIW
bran·dish
Pronunciation: \?bran-dish\
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English braundisshen, from Anglo-French brandiss-, stem of brandir, from brant, braund sword, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English brand
Date: 14th century
1 : to shake or wave (as a weapon) menacingly
2 : to exhibit in an ostentatious or aggressive manner

 

[FirebirdV8]

Originally posted by MX-5:
The glove box and gun safe are interesting options; but the problem with that is that I'd be sitting in my convertible, with the top down, in a crowded parking lot, handling a firearm; that may be no better than leaning over the trunk of the car.

I didn't realize you were talking about a convertible. That could change things a little bit. I'm sure you'll find a good idea for your problem.

 

[jeffrey]

We have the same stupid law in New Mexico; we can't carry concealed in a restaurant that serves booze for on-site consumption. If I have to disarm and place my gun under the seat (or in the trunk), I do it before arriving at the restaurant, preferably miles away so that anyone who might see anything won't be around when I finally park. (Of course, this leaves me unarmed for that possible carjack that occurs on route!)

And I don't unload as I don't want to mess with a gun when I'm trying to do something quickly.

 

[617fan]

Thankfully in KY the law reads that you can't carry into:

c. any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;

So you here you are fine unless your sitting at the bar.

Proud to be near dead last on the Brady list!!

 

[MX-5]

Hi, again. Some good news from the NRA. I just got an email from them saying that a legislator introduced a bill in the Virginia assembly to make it legal to carry a concealed handgun, with a permit, in a restaurant that serves liquor, so long as the handgun owner doesn't themselves drink any. Hopefully, that'll take care of the issue.

jj2AM44: Thanks for the definition of brandishing.

Unfortunately, from what I've been able to discover, Virginia has its own definition of the term. The Virginia definition may be a bit broader. It includes, displaying a handgun in "such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm * * * in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured." That covers quite a bit of territory, and I would prefer not to get into a debate about "reasonableness" with a police officer or a judge if some person walking with a small child decides to accuse me of inducing fear in their mind.

 

[cmort666]

Originally posted by Wyatt Earp:

Originally posted by Big Foot:

Or CC anyway.

That's a great answer....

Ohio laws are such that if you are going to carry effectively, you are going to break a few of them.

If you were to follow our law 100%, then you may as well just carry while you drive. Because in many areas of the state, particularly all the large urban ones, that is the only place not posted.

You can roll you [edited] eyes all you want, but that's just the way it is.

Big boy rules apply.

That's funny because here in Rocky River, the only places I see posted are places with liquor licenses, the Post Office, Best Cuts, Half Price Books, Fedex and a couple of office buildings I don't go into anyway.
NONE of the banks are.
NONE of the grocery stores are.
The big new bookstore at the mall isn't.
None of the fast food places I go to is (MacDonalds, Wendy's, Arby's, Five Guys, Chik-Fil-A).
Walgreen's isn't.
Neither Home Depot nor Lowe's is.
Office Max isn't.

The malls in North Olmsted and Westlake are, but if you leave your gun in the car, at MOST it's civil trespassing, and ONLY if they KNOW and you refuse to leave.

I keep hearing how hard it is to carry in Ohio, but I just don't see it. I carry EVERY day.

 

[twigs]

MX-5, don't get your hopes up. That same bill passed last year but was vetoed by Governor Kaine, who is still in office.

As for the suggestion to carry on ABC premises, you'd not only be committing a class 1 misdemeanor (up to 12 months and/or a $2500 fine), but also be making it certain that your CHP would be revoked.

I ran into the same issue recently. I took my gun out while inside the passenger area, concealed it in the pasenger area, and did the reverse when I finished eating. Clumsy and less safe than I prefer (since I was manipulating my gun in a relatively enclosed space and trying to keep it below the level of the windows) but it worked.

I left my IWB holster on. Wearing it empty inside an ABC site is NOT illegal.

I feel that displaying it briefly by putting it in the trunk is not brandishing, but I also don't want to advertise that I have a gun at all.

 

[Big Foot]

You can roll you *edited* eyes all you want, but that's just the way it is.

Real class act....

One more for you..
Some how you seem to think that whatever pronouncement you make on countless posts, like this one; gives some finality to the discussion.
Instead of backpedaling on a stupid, spur of the moment reply, like CC illegally; you just plow ahead thinking it will go away...Not so. How these Moderators let you get away with some of this droll sarcasm is beyond me...

I know what button to push....

 

[Evil One]

I open carry daily.
Just take off your jacket and go in.
If people are freaked out and you are asked to remove your gun... is that really a place you want to be?
Personally, I dont give my money to places who openly and blatantly step on my 2A rights.
If I go into a place that is not posted... and is not on the "off limits" list... and something is said, we leave.
If the shopping cart is full, it is left with the person... If it is at a restaurant... we get up and walk out.
Why keep supporting the places that dont want "your kind" when there are plenty of other places who do.
And yes, I hope the CC in places that serve alcohol passes... even tho it doesnt effect me one way or the other.


Jim

 

[WR Moore]

Open carry in northern Virginia is likely to cause a "hue and cry" unless they decide you're a plainclothes cop. While it may be legal, it's not real bright-especially if we're talking about being in a licensed on-site premises.

Many years later I recall the look on a cashiers face when my sorting of change in my hand displayed a couple of .38 rounds to her.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Open carry may be technically legal, but that don't keep you from be arrested and held for a few days along with your new friends and new clothes while they decide what to do with you.

 

[Evil One]

And I will have a nice payment from the agency that tries that.
VCDL does rather well on cases like this.


Jim

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

And I will have a nice payment from the agency that tries that.
VCDL does rather well on cases like this.

Then Virginia is unique in that regard.

 

[Evil One]

One reason I moved here and joined VCDL...
To exercise my rights with as little infringement as possible.
I OC any time I leave the house and dont worry about being hassled over it.
I stopped in at my local police station, I know... police are the last people to ask about law... to ask their "opinion" on open carry.
They were enthusiastic about it... said they wish more people did it.
Makes me proud of my new home.


Jim

 

[creedekid]

In GA we can carry into a restaurant that serves as long as we don't partake. If I know I am going to have a drink or two, I have my wife carry, as she is my designated driver any way.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Originally posted by twigs:
MX-5, don't get your hopes up. That same bill passed last year but was vetoed by Governor Kaine, who is still in office.

As for the suggestion to carry on ABC premises, you'd not only be committing a class 1 misdemeanor (up to 12 months and/or a $2500 fine), but also be making it certain that your CHP would be revoked.

I ran into the same issue recently. I took my gun out while inside the passenger area, concealed it in the pasenger area, and did the reverse when I finished eating. Clumsy and less safe than I prefer (since I was manipulating my gun in a relatively enclosed space and trying to keep it below the level of the windows) but it worked.

I left my IWB holster on. Wearing it empty inside an ABC site is NOT illegal.

I feel that displaying it briefly by putting it in the trunk is not brandishing, but I also don't want to advertise that I have a gun at all.

Ever been patted down going into Outback? There's no metal detector either.

Judges also have sentencing discretion. You're not going to spend a year in a jail for CCW w/o a record for all practical purposes - if for no other reason than that there is probably no room for you. You're going to get yelled at and told not to do it again. Maybe if the DA hates you for some reason you'll pay a fine and have to spend a weekend or two picking up trash on the side of the road.

Shrug. I live in VA, I don't open carry, and I don't put a gun in my trunk. Folks are free to infer from that what they may.

My view mirrors Wyatt's. If there is no metal detector, no one to pat me down, and it isn't Federal time to carry some place. Well then I don't worry about it. That's me. Others can do what they want.

(I also installed Excel on an additional computer, have recorded movies off HBO, smoked closer than 50 ft to a store entrance, tossed old tires into the dumpster and engaged in similar dastardly criminal behaviours over the years...)

 

[Evil One]

Yanno Gator, I cant help but like you after reading many of your posts.
A seriously common sense approach to most things.
That is sorely lacking in the world today.


Jim

 

[WR Moore]

Originally posted by Evil One:
One reason I moved here.... I OC any time I leave the house and dont worry about being hassled over it.
I stopped in at my local police station, I know... police are the last people to ask about law... to ask their "opinion" on open carry.
They were enthusiastic about it... said they wish more people did it.
Jim

Buenva Vista, VA ain't Fairfax County! Not that I'm picking on Fairfax, that's just an example-and a handy one since they got sued over their fee structure after Virginia went "shall issue". They lost

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by GatorFarmer:
(I also installed Excel on an additional computer, have recorded movies off HBO, smoked closer than 50 ft to a store entrance, tossed old tires into the dumpster and engaged in similar dastardly criminal behaviours over the years...)

LOL