trigger jobs

[Slave]

Okay, not trying to start a flame war here, so please don't.

This is so very serious, so I am asking this.

I have about 20 years shooting civilian and military, from 22's, to assault rifles on full auto, to explosives, and grenade launchers.

Here goes:

What is up with all of this "gritty" trigger crap? What about all of this putting apex triggers on a weapon out of the box?

Here is a post from OCDO I am part of:

I have an M&P40 which I purchased last December. Out of the box, the trigger was gritty with varying "feels" as it traveled to its release point. So I disassemble the gun and carefully inspected its parts; how it worked, how they all worked together, and how the trigger operated. This gave me an idea.

For the next several weeks as I watched TV, I would "work" the trigger many, many times. What I did was (after a thorough cleaning) to dry fire the gun one time, then without racking the slide to reset the stricker, I would pull the trigger rapidly hundreds of times. I have done this well over 6,000 times so far. The result was a much smoother trigger and a better overall feel.

6000 times over several weeks? I called this the TJM, or Trigger Job Mafia.

When did all of these new pistols need trigger jobs? If so many need trigger jobs, then why aren't the triggers being made like this out of the box?

What do people mean the M&P has a "gritty" trigger? Mine is smooth as silk.

Only thing I did to mine was take it home, shoot it, clean it and put it away.

Has the handgun crowd become like the PC crowd, where new gear is bought just to mod it to say it was done?

What does this APEX trigger job that makes the M&P so much better? If it is so much better, and so many people are doing it, why hasn't S&W just changed the trigger around?

I am confused.

 

[Deadeye Dick]

Slave, I understand where you are coming from and I agree. I get irked when I hear someone complaining that the new hunting rifle they just bought doesn't shoot 1/2" groups like a bench rest rifle or their new production service pistol's trigger doesn't break like a glass rod like that of a custom bullseye pistol costing three times as much. Let's be realistic folks. The M&P pistol is what it is and if you ask me it has a better trigger than most guns in it's class and price range.

 

[OKFC05]

In this case, I guess I swing both ways, depending on the use of the gun.

For competitiion guns in some events, the guns are "race guns" that aren't really practical to carry and use for defense. Ever see a USPSA open gun in a skeleton holster? So yes, these custom beasts get the whole treatment, including radical triggers.

However, I cringe at the wholesale modifications being made to carry guns, often by unskilled workers using information off the internet. It is evident that some people "improving" their guns don't understand the design or how they are supposed to work.

The most common reason for people dropping out of my IDPA matches is that they "improve" a good gun until it so unreliable it is embarassing to them.
Stock divisions in IDPA are intended for stock defense guns.
Modifications to defense guns should be left to skilled workers.

 

[C4IGrant]

First let me say that the S&W trigger is 100% serviceable out of the box. Peoples time would be much better spent on the range learning to shoot VS spending money on a trigger job.

With that said, the APEX Tactical components make a WORLD of difference. The main way they do this is via trigger pull. The factory trigger pull is around 6LBS. The APEX SEAR and Striker Block will drop the trigger pull to around 4.5LBS. This is a significant improvement.

Then you can add the Duty trigger return spring for a faster trigger reset.

So is it a MUST to have a trigger job? No. Does it make the gun much easier to shoot well? Yes.



C4

 

[Titegroups]

Try one and you will understand. With information being exchanged so freely on the internet gun forums modification of guns will only become more popular. The age of information will lead to improved guns in the future. You know S&W pays attention to what goes on here and it provides free feedback to them on their products.

 

[mlk18]

Smith & Wesson did change the trigger, they call it the Pro model. They changed the sights, put in a better sear and charge a lot more for it. The trigger on a pro is better than a non-pro (in my hands anyway) but neither are as good as APEX.

In a world of cookie cutter products customization is gold. The aftermarket world drives guns sales and gun sales drive the aftermarket world. If people used to Glock's trigger won't covert to the M&P because of it then you come up with a product that makes it equal to or better than a Glock trigger. This converts people, increases sales, etc., etc.

 

[6pack]

I have held off on the M&P pistols because of this very thing. I hear so many people talk about how great they are after they get the trigger tweaked.

You are paying a premium for the gun over a Glock and then having to spend more funds to get the trigger "as good". Anyway, the Glocks have always fit me well (full size models, only).




I guess now I'm going to have to eat a little bit of crow because I'm soon to become an M&P owner due to placing an order today for one for my wife. She liked the feel of the grips and I liked the fact that I can easily swap 'em out with the larger swell and shoot it comfortably, too.

We will evaluate how the trigger feels in it's stock form....shoot it for 200 rounds or so....and then make some determinations.





I think C4IGrant summed it up very well in his response.




I'm interested to see how my wife's gun develops. Who knows....I may even add an M&P of my own one day.

 

[Slave]

Ok, what makes a 4.5lb trigger pull better? I want a gun I can fight with. I shot a glock with a trigger job, and I hated it. For one, I hate glocks. I hate the grip angle, and I hate the fat grip. Feels like I am holding a cinder block.

Well, I shot one with the APEX kit, and the trigger pull was way way to light, and I foresaw accidents. The trigger was very spongy, and I couldn't tell where it was going to break.

I hit my targets with the same accuracy as my M&P.

Well, after some practice I did, as the grip angle bothered me at first.

Can anyone describe this "grit" to me? I really would like to know what it is.

 

[Titegroups]

I would just buy the glock then with the apex adjustable grip angle and with the N.Y. trigger kit. Perfection.

 

[6pack]

Ok, what makes a 4.5lb trigger pull better? I want a gun I can fight with. I shot a glock with a trigger job, and I hated it. For one, I hate glocks. I hate the grip angle, and I hate the fat grip. Feels like I am holding a cinder block.

Well, I shot one with the APEX kit, and the trigger pull was way way to light, and I foresaw accidents. The trigger was very spongy, and I couldn't tell where it was going to break.

I hit my targets with the same accuracy as my M&P.

Well, after some practice I did, as the grip angle bothered me at first. Good for you....the same gun isn't for everyone. Be glad your's is working for you.

Can anyone describe this "grit" to me? I really would like to know what it is.
I suppose if you don't know or haven't felt it with your gun then you must have a good gun. Why worry any further about it?

I'm sure with all your extensive years of shooting you know what trigger "grit" is and feels like, anyway. Be glad you aren't having it with your gun.

Sound like you've got a gun that suits you well. Enjoy it.

 

[Sauergrapes]

I bought a slightly used pro series about 3 months ago. The guy told me he had the trigger "worked on".
He told me the trigger had some creep? Do they have some creep out of the box? I really like the gun.

 

[DLL10mm]

I would just buy the glock then with the apex adjustable grip angle and with the N.Y. trigger kit. Perfection.

What is a Glock apex adjustable grip angle?

 

[mlk18]

It's better known as a the Lonewolf Glock frame. Another example of a product that takes a good gun and makes it better, $200 later. Naaaa I will stick with my M&P.

 

[WilliamB]

It's all about personal preference. Some people enjoy tweaking and improving pistols and others feel out of the box is fine. There is no wrong or right answer.

Personally I evaluate the pistols intended use and decide what to do then. I bought a 9c and thought the trigger could be improved upon. This will be used as a carry gun; however, I intend to shoot it at the range on average a few hundred rounds a month until I get fixated on something else. With its current trigger I thought the pistol was extremely accurate; however, I have ordered the Apex parts because I know I will enjoy shooting the pistol more at the range. I'm really not looking for a light trigger otherwise I would have bought Apex's competition kit. My prior carry pistol is a full size Les Baer 1911 45 ACP. The trigger on that is incredible. However time to reduce the carry weight.

 

[motonut]

I took my M&P 40 to the range a week ago for the first time in many months. The gun shot well and I was pretty accurate with it but I most definitely felt the "gritty" trigger. Now I've run at least 500 rds. through this gun up until this point. Came home a did some research and found out about the Apex kit so I ordered it.

Just finished installing the Apex Duty/Carry kit (have not gone to the range yet). I've only been able to dry fire the pistol but the "gritty" feeling is gone and so far it feels like a very sweet upgrade to the pistol, I bet I'll be including it in my range bag much more often now.

I'll try to remember to update after my next range visit.

 

[ptiller]

Just wondering if this is the firt time you have done this kind of install and how hard was it. I am thinking of trying it myself, so looking for feedback.

 

[growr]

The best trigger work for me was one round at a time...two things happen..you get better with your gun and your gun gets better for you. My M&P .40 Full Size has over 15,000 rounds downrange in USPSA/IPDA matches and just keeps on getting better and better.
Ne need for Apex or Dan Burwell....take the money that you would have spent and buy more ammo and shoot it alot!
Randy

 

[Harrison]

Lets face it, most of the factory triggers on almost all guns today are designed to appease lawyers and make it a little more difficult for total idiots, or four year old children to shot themselves or others; not to make the gun more shootable. If you know and practice safe gun gun handling there is no need to have six and eight pound triggers on rifles shotguns and semiauto pistols. In the old days if an unsafe idiot shot himself or a family member cleaning an unloaded firearm, it was considered the idiots fault. Now days, no one is responsible for their own stupidity, so they sue the gun manufacturer and win. Mostly this is the fault of the modern American legal system.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Okay, not trying to start a flame war here, so please don't.

This is so very serious, so I am asking this.

I have about 20 years shooting civilian and military, from 22's, to assault rifles on full auto, to explosives, and grenade launchers.

Here goes:

What is up with all of this "gritty" trigger crap? What about all of this putting apex triggers on a weapon out of the box?

Here is a post from OCDO I am part of:



6000 times over several weeks? I called this the TJM, or Trigger Job Mafia.

When did all of these new pistols need trigger jobs? If so many need trigger jobs, then why aren't the triggers being made like this out of the box?

What do people mean the M&P has a "gritty" trigger? Mine is smooth as silk.

Only thing I did to mine was take it home, shoot it, clean it and put it away.

Has the handgun crowd become like the PC crowd, where new gear is bought just to mod it to say it was done?

What does this APEX trigger job that makes the M&P so much better? If it is so much better, and so many people are doing it, why hasn't S&W just changed the trigger around?

I am confused.

S&W does'nt care.

If I could show you before and after pics of my targets with and without the Apex sear and striker block, your question would be answered.

After replacing the sear, striker block, and installing a Storm Lake 357 Sig barrel my M&P 40C is incredibly acurate.

Granted, most guns shoot well right out of the box. But, I judge a guns accuracy on how accurate I shoot it.

There's nothing wrong with improving a defensive gun as long as it's done correctly.

After all, it's all about accuracy. Right?

 

[motonut]

The best trigger work for me was one round at a time...two things happen..you get better with your gun and your gun gets better for you. My M&P .40 Full Size has over 15,000 rounds downrange in USPSA/IPDA matches and just keeps on getting better and better.
Ne need for Apex or Dan Burwell....take the money that you would have spent and buy more ammo and shoot it alot!
Randy

I don't know how much ammo you think you're going to buy for $90 but I'm definitely glad I installed the Apex Duty/Carry kit in my M&P this week. Took it to the range and put another 200 rds. through her yesterday, damn what an improvement ofer the stock trigger. Two of my neighbors who had shot that gun before shot it yesterday and both were impressed with the smoothness and feel of the new trigger.

I for one am glad I installed the Apex kit, well worth the price.

For the ney-sayers, you compare a stock trigger to a gun with the Apex kit and then come back and badmouth the kit.