Trigger like gravel, gunsmith clueless!

[Brian Parrish]

My trigger feels really rough.
This is on my Model 411. Great gun which I got for three hundred plus you know another 70 bucks or so in shipping and fees etc.
Just got two new magazines from Guzzitaco here!
Anyway I think I know what it is. Maybe you can help.

Here is what Fastbolt said regarding 3rd Gen pistols back in May of 2011:
"The most easily noticed changes were back when MIM hammers, sears & triggers were introduced. Introduction of MIM hammers resulted in better triggers for the most part. When it came to the older machined hammers you never knew whether a particular hammer was going to be smooth on the surface where the sear nose rubbed during the initial DA stroke, or rough as a shale outcropping due to a dulling cutter. Other spots could vary, too. The MIM hammers are more consistent."

"Rough as a shale outcropping..." That is what I have, I think.
So, what is the fix?
I showed it to the local gunsmith who was completely ignorant about 3rd gen Smiths. He offered to "clean it" for $45. "Sometimes these old guns are just like that," he said. Oh brother.

Thank you for your help in advance!
BrianD

 

[Brian Parrish]

I thought of dropping in a hammer from a 4006. I like the bobbed hammer.
Doesn't the hammer just need stoned?

 

[Ameshawki]

I'd start with a complete breakdown and thorough clean before resorting to stoning.

 

[JohnHL]

Two suggestions, Brian.

The sear rubbing across the periphery of the hammer during DA is one known problem.

As you say, stoning/smoothing the hammer will help, as will replacing the hammer with MIM.

The other, not so well known, is the mainspring coils abrading on the inside of the metal mainspring cup.

The mainspring and cup can be arduously smoothed, but the preferred method is to replace the metal cup with the polymer cup from the later models.

I hope this helps.

John

 

[chief38]

Not for nothing, but if a professional GS is at a loss for a gritty trigger issue I'd bring it somewhere's else! I do not have the gun in front of me but it's a pistol, not the space shuttle. Not saying every issue is so easy to figure out, however a gritty trigger for a pro??

 

[Brian Parrish]

No guarantees

Not for nothing, but if a professional GS is at a loss for a gritty trigger issue I'd bring it somewhere's else! I do not have the gun in front of me but it's a pistol, not the space shuttle. Not saying every issue is so easy to figure out, however a gritty trigger for a pro??

I did not talk directly to the smith. It was the clerk who took it into the back to show him. I think the clerk interrupted him in his work who did not really want to look at it. The clerk came back and said that and also said to leave it for him to clean and there were "no guarantees." I did not leave it with them. This was at about the best, most popular store in the area. I am searching around for a new gunsmith.

This may be an issue for 3rd gen lovers going into the future, that gunsmiths do not have training or confidence working on these guns. I agree with you.

Kind Regards,
BrianD

 

[armorer951]

Brian,

I believe John is referring to the milling marks shown here. These marks are absent on the MIM parts.

I found out after years of work and observation that the "heavy", service grade SA on the later pistols is largely due to the addition of the firing pin safety plunger and spring. There's always a trade off I guess. (Hence the better feeling trigger pull on the model 39's that don't have this added safety device)





Carter

 

[JohnHL]

Actually, Carter the "gritty" area to which I was referring is along the front, curved area of the hammer where the sear drags during the double action trigger pull, while the hammer is pivoting back, before the notches reach the sear.

That rough area on the hammer would be at the very top of your picture.

John

 

[shawn mccarver]

To the OP:

The guy who “works in the back” in the local gun store is by no means a qualified “gunsmith.” Those are few and far between.

I would call S&W. If memory serves, they had a lifetime service policy when the 3rd Gen guns were in production. Do not take the word of anyone here about whether they will service your pistol. Ask S&W. If they will, send it to S&W.

If they will not and you do not want a modern replacement, which is what they often offer a customer, and which is likely a better idea, then ask around or do some research to find one of the old S&W warranty service centers which they had around the country.

If one of those is still in business, and even if not a warranty service center any longer, if you find one where a guy who worked there when it was a warranty center is still working, you will get it repaired properly.

If that doesn’t work, ask some of the S&W trained armorers who post here if they will look it over for you. Be prepared to pay a fee.

That said, do not let just anyone disassemble your gun unless you have done your due diligence to make certain they will not make it worse.

I have seen supposed “experts” who have taken it upon themselves to teach by You Tube video do some downright cringeworthy things to fine revolvers and pistols.

In the end, it is nearly impossible to get a correct diagnosis of the problem without letting a qualified gunsmith look it over. I am not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV. Armorer, yes. Gunsmith, no. Do not make it worse by trying to learn a new trade by practicing on your own pistol!

Good luck.

 

[chief38]

Without even looking at said pistol, "GRITTY" is caused by interference of debris, crud, burs, ill fitting parts between two mating surfaces, etc. There are only so many mating surfaces to look at.

 

[LVSteve]

Actually, Carter the "gritty" area to which I was referring is along the front, curved area of the hammer where the sear drags during the double action trigger pull, while the hammer is pivoting back, before the notches reach the sear.

That rough area on the hammer would be at the very top of your picture.

John

...and it looks like a ploughed field on my computer.

 

[JohnHL]

It is my understanding (unverified), that the S&W semi-auto trigger blanks were "stamped" or "punched" out of a sheet of steel, "cookie-cutter" fashion, before machining.

Those cross faced striations are the "fingerprints" of the stamping die.

Anybody know for sure?

John?