Trigger play spring necessary? 1013 up and running.

[rosewood]

Just got my 1013 up and running. Fired it today and it didn't miss a beat. Came home to go ahead and convert another mag.

Took the gun apart to clean and found a piece of the trigger play spring that fell out. The entire top of spring is gone. Will that spring being broken cause any problems? Is it possible I caused it to break? I thought I had sent this gun to the mothership about 2 years ago and was thinking they had replaced it.


I have a 21lb spring in it, but it was still throwing the spent brass about 15'-20'. But every 10mm I have ever owned tossed it a long way. So I am thinking that is normal.

Thanks,

Rosewood

 

[4T5GUY]

I’ve actually gotten some LE trade ins that didn’t ever have a trigger play spring. One less thing to break or fix I suppose.

I put trigger play springs in them all just because I like the “feel” of the trigger better with them.

You didn’t do anything wrong, they get stressed. Someone might have bent it back to normal which works. For a while. They are easy enough to replace and the new, (solid on the top ones,) seem to last longer.

Jim

 

[rosewood]

Thanks! I had already ordered a couple a while back and had in my S&W parts box. Will probably go ahead and install it. After some more tweeking, this one will be part of my EDC rotation with my 3913.

Rosewood

 

[stansdds]

Seems to me that the California Highway Patrol ordered their Model 4006's without this spring. This spring can break and the pieces are capable of tying up the pistol. The lack of the spring means the trigger will flop around in single action mode when your finger is not on the trigger, but that is just an annoyance and does not affect the safety nor function of the pistol.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I have a CHP pre-rail 4013TSW turn-in & it doesn't have the trigger play spring either.

While having one installed is nice I've gotten used to mine & normally don't notice it (unless someone reminds me about it ).

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Just got my 1013 up and running.
I have a 21lb spring in it, but it was still throwing the spent brass about 15'-20'.
But every 10mm I have ever owned tossed it a long way.
So I am thinking that is normal.

My 1013 has the small diameter (.237") guide rod for the dual/nested recoil springs. I used the regular inner spring with a Wolff 19# (#47719 for the large diameter guide rod) as the outer spring.

Additionally I modified a Wolff 23# Type "A"/Long mainspring (#27523) & shortened it to make my own XP mainspring since they don't make one.

This adds about 1lb. to the SA trigger pull but adds about 4-5#s more resistance/pressure on the slide than the regular mainspring, in an attempt to slow the slide down some.

But you are correct, I also believe, you can only do so much to slow them down & keep the brass in low-earth orbit.

I detailed my 4013 to 1013 built in this thread on the forum:
Genesis: 4013 to 1013 to 1016

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[rosewood]

I went ahead and replaced the play spring on the 3913 and 1013. Sure is nice with the click gone. Was easier than I thought. I think assembling a 1911 frame is more tedious than the 3rd gen sa/da frame.

I am not too worried about how far the brass actually goes, just don't want to beat my frame up.

Mine has the fat guide rod, single spring. Can't even find a small one for sale anywhere. I think I can make a bushing, or get my BIL to make me one, if I can get a guide rod.

I have the 21# wolf now and considered a 23#,but the stiffer the spring, the more abuse the frame takes on the forward stroke. I hadn't considered a stiffer main spring to slow the slide. That should work, but not sure I want a heavier trigger.

I just swapped out the aluminum guide rod for a stainless one. Thinking that will help with muzzle flip, but concerned the steel will abuse the frame more than the Al.

Anyone know why Smith went to the nested setup? Reliability? Frame wear and tear?

Rosewood

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I believe it was basically for the added strength for more reliable feeding & ejection.

Both of my 4013s have the dual/nested spring on the skinny FLGR but my 4516-1 has the single recoil spring on the fatter FLGR.

Both of these pistols, 4013 & 4516, had each setup at different times.

The 4013 started with the single then changed to the dual later.

The 4516, IIRC, went back & forth at least once between them.

Both pistols used the same recoil springs, whether single or dual version.

The single recoil spring is listed as a 16# spring.

My 4516-1 has the single recoil spring but I've never tested it's single recoil spring's strength on my setup.

Assuming it's recoil spring does make 16# at full compression (Condition "C") that would be 5# lower than what I measured with the dual recoil springs in the 4013, at 21# as indicated in my chart above.

And I'm sure the dual spring combination has a different force curve than a single spring, made to have the same full compression strength, likely changing the feel when racking the slide & closure force.

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[rosewood]

Well, I put a new trigger play spring in last week. Clicking was gone, went out and shot a few times and clicking came back. Could the recoil of the 10mm be damaging the spring? Did I not install it correctly? I also put one in my 3913, and it is still working fine after running a few mags thru it the same day.

Thanks,

Rosewood

 

[armorer951]

Another good way of monitoring the efficacy of the current recoil spring, or evaluate a recent spring change to a different rate, is to check for contact or battering on the frame, just behind the hammer.

If the hammer contacts this area, this is an indication that the recoil spring is inadequate (aka: too weak) for the loads you are using.

This area can be stained with a Sharpie or Dykem prior to evaluation. This will aid in determining the evidence and severity of the contact (or the absence of contact) at the location.

 

[rosewood]

Another good way of monitoring the efficacy of the current recoil spring, or evaluate a recent spring change to a different rate, is to check for contact or battering on the frame, just behind the hammer.

If the hammer contacts this area, this is an indication that the recoil spring is inadequate for the loads you are using.

This area can be stained with a Sharpie or Dykem prior to evaluation. This will aid in determining the evidence and severity of the contact (or the absence of contact) at the location.

Good tip, thanks!!

 

[BLUEDOT37]

If the hammer contacts this area, this is an indication that the recoil spring is inadequate (aka: too weak) for the loads you are using.

I'll respectfully disagree with having that mark means you have a problem.

The hammer gets locked back/down before the slide is even half way thru it's rearward travel.

The hammer/mainspring controls the hammer.

I doubt any of my two dozen 3rd Gens don't have that mark (I didn't check every one).

Even the one I bought brand new & only has a few rounds thru it has that mark. (The picture I took of it new shows the beginning of that mark starting on the hammer, before I ever fired it.)

While a weak recoil spring is definitely only going to create problems I'd think where the slide hits the frame abutment would be the main point of concern.

The hammer has to hit something to stop it's momentum whether it's in a high pressure cartridge pistol (10mm) or a lower pressure (45ACP) one.

I say it's just incidental contact that alone tells you nothing special by itself.

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