Try To educate or MYOB?

[Smoke]

A couple of years back I overheard a conversation at work in which a couple of reservists were telling another coworker that they would be happy to purchase any firearm for her at the Ft. Carson PX so she could avoid sales tax. At that point I stepped in and told them that what they were describing was a straw purchase and that they could wind up in serious trouble, I was promptly told to MYOFB and got myself out of the conversation.

I have also been told that if I was in possession of a handgun that wasn’t registered with the Colorado Springs Police Department I was in violation of Colorado law. The guy said it with absolute authority even after I explained to him that Colorado law specifically makes firearms registration illegal.

The same guy told me that I must obtain “special paper work” from CSPD to sell a handgun (this was years before the UBC law went into effect.)

I’ve also been told by a coworker (in strictest confidence) that she had an unregistered Glock that she bought at a gun show.

I’ve been told that Colorado law states that you may only carry a handgun in your vehicle if it is unloaded and in plain sight, this guy stuck to his story even after I printed off a copy of the relevant statute (CRS 18-12-204).

And last night I was told by a neighbor that a permit was required to even own a handgun in Colorado and that also long as you told someone first “I have a legally permitted pistol.” It’s OK to shoot someone to protect your property. I didn’t even waste my time trying to correct the guy.

Now, in retrospect I have to admit that in most of these cases I knew the person well enough that I should have known it was a lost cause before I ever opened my mouth but I have to ask is there a point where you just feel like it isn’t worth it to try to correct some of the miss information that’s out there?

Do ever hear another gun owner lay out a line of misinformation and just let it go? Or should we step in on stuff like that and correct miss conceptions? *

*By step in I don't mean interjecting yourself into a conversation between two complete strangers that has nothing to do with you anyway. I'm talking about someone you at least have some relationship with

 

[vito]

I think it is always worth a try. You might actually find some folks are appreciative of learning the correct information. If you fail to say anything when misinformation is being spouted, it also serves as corroboration of that misinformation to anyone else who hears it spoken.

I have had a few cases of being in a gun shop and overhearing one person "educate" another, apparently novice to guns, and giving earnest but incorrect information (for example, stating that "a revolver is better for self defense because it is far too dangerous to carry a semi with a round n the chamber", or that "experts all agree that the only good caliber for self defense is the 9mm"). I have politely tried to steer the conversation to factual issues, sometimes with success and sometimes only to get the glare of hate from the speaker.

 

[TucsonMTB]

Sure! I try to be helpful.

But, only with real friends I know well enough to predict their reaction. Saying something to a co-worker would be foolish and could create a real problem for you, possibly leading to job loss.

YMMV . . . I also would not draw my weapon to protect a stranger. So, maybe I am just selfish.

 

[Waywatcher]

The first scenario you described would only be a straw purchase if the individual was not legally able to buy the pistol him/herself. Having someone purchase a pistol for you for the sole purpose of avoiding a tax, or for that matter to get a better deal, is not a straw purchase so long as the person could legally purchase the gun themselves.

 

[walkin jack]

Contrary to popular belief there IS a cure for stupid. But it is illegal. Other methods are not gonna work and more trouble for you. I have learned that I'm a lot more comfortable if I just let the idiots of this world think what they want to think.

Took me a long time to achieve this "state of grace" but it was worth the wait.

 

[arjay]

I think most non gun people just assume that the most stringent state or local laws apply everywhere.

 

[Smoke]

The first scenario you described would only be a straw purchase if the individual was not legally able to buy the pistol him/herself. Having someone purchase a pistol for you for the sole purpose of avoiding a tax, or for that matter to get a better deal, is not a straw purchase so long as the person could legally purchase the gun themselves.

Speaking of miss information

See the ATF publication Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide, 2005, at page 165 (emphasis added):

15. STRAW PURCHASES

Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use a "straw purchaser" (another person) to acquire the firearms. Specifically, the actual buyer uses the straw purchaser to execute the Form 4473 purporting to show that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser of the firearm. In some instances, a straw purchaser is used because the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm. That is to say, the actual purchaser is a felon or is within one of the other prohibited categories of persons who may not lawfully acquire firearms or is a resident of a State other than that in which the licensee's business premises is located. Because of his or her disability, the person uses a straw purchaser who is not prohibited from purchasing a firearm from the licensee. In other instances, neither the straw purchaser nor the actual purchaser is prohibited from acquiring the firearm.

In both instances, the straw purchaser violates Federal law by making false statements on Form 4473 to the licensee with respect to the identity of the actual purchaser of the firearm, as well as the actual purchaser's residence address and date of birth. The actual purchaser who utilized the straw purchaser to acquire a firearm has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused the making of the false statements. The licensee selling the firearm under these circumstances also violates Federal law if the licensee is aware of the false statements on the form. It is immaterial that the actual purchaser and the straw purchaser are residents of the State in which the licensee's business premises is located, are not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms, and could have lawfully purchased firearms...

The term "straw purchase" is often used in the wrong context. A straw purchase occurs when someone OTHER THAN the actual buyer/transferee attempts to acquire a firearm from a licensed DEALER. If the seller is not a licensed dealer then a straw purchase is impossible.

If the straw purchaser signs the 4473 they commit perjury as they were NOT the actual buyer. ATF makes it clear on the 4473 that buying a firearm as a "gift" is completely legal as long as the third party is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm.

A straw purchase is not solely "buying for a prohibited person", but buying on behalf of ANYONE else.....from a licensed dealer.

 

[zzzippper]

I thought all of the idiots in CO were driving cars (CO, at least Denver area, drivers are a very special group). And you seem to be surrounded by a special group. Do most of them wear bicycle helmets when they walk? Maybe it's that we keep to ourselves and that I work with gun-knowledgable people that I have not encountered that much "silliness". Maybe you can show them were the safety is on their revolver.

A couple of years back I overheard a conversation at work in which a couple of reservists were telling another coworker that they would be happy to purchase any firearm for her at the Ft. Carson PX so she could avoid sales tax. At that point I stepped in and told them that what they were describing was a straw purchase and that they could wind up in serious trouble, I was promptly told to MYOFB and got myself out of the conversation.

I have also been told that if I was in possession of a handgun that wasn’t registered with the Colorado Springs Police Department I was in violation of Colorado law. The guy said it with absolute authority even after I explained to him that Colorado law specifically makes firearms registration illegal.

The same guy told me that I must obtain “special paper work” from CSPD to sell a handgun (this was years before the UBC law went into effect.)

I’ve also been told by a coworker (in strictest confidence) that she had an unregistered Glock that she bought at a gun show.

I’ve been told that Colorado law states that you may only carry a handgun in your vehicle if it is unloaded and in plain sight, this guy stuck to his story even after I printed off a copy of the relevant statute (CRS 18-12-204).

And last night I was told by a neighbor that a permit was required to even own a handgun in Colorado and that also long as you told someone first “I have a legally permitted pistol.” It’s OK to shoot someone to protect your property. I didn’t even waste my time trying to correct the guy.

Now, in retrospect I have to admit that in most of these cases I knew the person well enough that I should have known it was a lost cause before I ever opened my mouth but I have to ask is there a point where you just feel like it isn’t worth it to try to correct some of the miss information that’s out there?

Do ever hear another gun owner lay out a line of misinformation and just let it go? Or should we step in on stuff like that and correct miss conceptions? *

*By step in I don't mean interjecting yourself into a conversation between two complete strangers that has nothing to do with you anyway. I'm talking about someone you at least have some relationship with

 

[Tom Beavert]

The simple thing to say is 'you may want to do some more research' . This lets everyone know there may be a better answer.
good luck
tb

 

[Alpo]

There's also the little part (I remember this from growing up as a Navy dependent) of buying something on base for someone else. I don't know if ATF would get involved with that, but the Military takes a dim view.

I can buy a gun at the Exchange and GIVE it to you. Gifts are fine. But if I take YOUR money and go buy you a gun at the Exchange, or for that matter, take YOUR money and go buy you a pair of boots at Small Stores, I'm breaking the rules.

If you buy someone booze or smokes, and get caught, you can get your card pulled.

 

[arjay]

Colorado used to be a nice place.In the last 15 years our population has doubled.The roads are jammed,the mountains are crowded.It ain't the natives causing the problems.Its the urban refugees.

 

[H Richard]

When I overhear these kind of comments, "IF" I know the people I will try and inject correct information into the conversation. "IF" I don't know the people I do not as I have found over the years when you try and correct a stranger all you do is p#$$ them off.

 

[G-Mac]

I had a guy (that I know well) tell me that his Hi-Point .40 S&W Carbine would also shoot .38 Specials....I tried to tell him that it wouldn't and he got mad.

Don't waste your time with idiots.

 

[keith44spl]

It takes all my waking hours to tend to my own business....

I don't have time to mind other folk's dealings.

As that cigar smokin', scotch swilling southern comic sez, "Ya can't fit stupid!"



.

 

[OldDominion]

I have always been amazed by the fact that you can walk into any gun store, in any part of the country, and there will always be an "expert" there willing to educate anyone within earshot of any and all things firearm related. I also learned long ago the best way to burn the tip off your nose is to poke it somewhere it wasn't invited. Still, if I "overhear" bad advice that can result in a felony charge, I may try to discretely urge more research. The 'net makes it much easier to go directly to .gov and get the straight skinny.

 

[Waywatcher]

See the ATF publication Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide, 2005, at page 165 (emphasis added):

The term "straw purchase" is often used in the wrong context. A straw purchase occurs when someone OTHER THAN the actual buyer/transferee attempts to acquire a firearm from a licensed DEALER. If the seller is not a licensed dealer then a straw purchase is impossible.

If the straw purchaser signs the 4473 they commit perjury as they were NOT the actual buyer. ATF makes it clear on the 4473 that buying a firearm as a "gift" is completely legal as long as the third party is not otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearm.

A straw purchase is not solely "buying for a prohibited person", but buying on behalf of ANYONE else.....from a licensed dealer.

I stand corrected. What a terrible law.

 

[shouldazagged]

I thought all of the idiots in CO were driving cars (CO, at least Denver area, drivers are a very special group). And you seem to be surrounded by a special group. Do most of them wear bicycle helmets when they walk?

Only if chewing gum at the time.

 

[feralmerril]

I think it`s called "picking your battles". If you sense they feel like they are going to do what they want to do anyway and are going to resent or not believe your input and as long as it dont affect you then dont put yourself through a losing battle. Not that I always have followed this principal myself especially with family.

 

[diamonback68]

It takes all my waking hours to tend to my own business....

I don't have time to mind other folk's dealings.

As that cigar smokin', scotch swilling southern comic sez, "Ya can't fit stupid!"

It took me many long years to learn the simple lesson and it has served me well....Mind Your Own Business.

 

[Brian41]

I know when I was working I sometimes heard the most outlandish things about guns and gun laws. Depending on how well I knew those involved I sometimes made a comment with what I hope was correct information. Sometimes I think I helped educate some that had maybe swallowed some of the anti-gun misinformation out there and possibly influenced their opinion. Other times I just kept my mouth shut as I knew my input would have had no change in the conversation.
On the other hand some I knew pretty well and knew I was a gun person would seek me out for my opinion on gun matters.
As a matter of policy though I don't advertize the fact I own guns and especially the fact I carry one.