TV and Movie Lawmen and a Cocked & Locked 1911

Wyatt Burp

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I like Longmire, especially how he carries a stag handled Colt .45 auto. Tommy Lee Jones carried a 1911 in No Country For Old Men. I noticed both these guys carry their guns with the hammer down, cocking it single action style when they draw. I'm no expert so I ask you. Would some lawmen NOT carry their 1911s cocked and locked today? I can't picture that but maybe I'm wrong. Or is it something we aren't supposed to notice.
 
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Wyatt, you must not understand the intimidation factor when the hero barks a command and backs it up by cocking his big automatic gun. Sort of like sneaking into the trashy's lair and then jacking one into the chamber. It's the intimidation factor don't you know?
 
While I do own a nice worked over remington rand I dont consider myself highly experienced with the 1911 as many others are here. I do think a lot depends on the mans size hands. I suppose a man with huge strong hands can easily cock the gun moreso than a man with smaller hands. I just bought a tiny sig sauer 380 with the same system. I have just started to pack it and choose to carry it WITHOUT one in the pipe. That may change as I get more adapt with it, or may not.
I know, I know, supposedly its suppose to be as safe cocked and locked but it still doesnt look right to most people. And yes, I once carried a old colt pocket model 380 for awhile like that. Only you and the public didnt get to see the hammer back. If I was more familiar with the 1911 and shot it a lot I MIGHT go that way. Have the setup, here it is.




 
Wyatt, you must not understand the intimidation factor when the hero barks a command and backs it up by cocking his big automatic gun. Sort of like sneaking into the trashy's lair and then jacking one into the chamber. It's the intimidation factor don't you know?
Speaking of that and tommy Lee Jones again, we watched The Fugitive the other day and Jones' character was always working the slide on his Glock after he drew it. I didn't fall for that one.
 
I think it is more of Holyweird not really knowing how firearms work. Just like in Walking Dead when Rick told his deputy to make sure the safety was off his glock, then you heard a click, Ar-15's with no rear sights, and the revolver having a shell casing hit the ground after it was fired.

That said I do like Longmire and love he carries a 1911. Plus, more Starbuck!!!
 
I remember two old time detectives when I was a rookie in 1972.
One carried the hammer down one carried half cocked.
IIRC both were WWII vets.

I likewise remember in about 1975 or so we were on a elevator at the main station when a rookie entered the elevator.
I glanced down and he had his Smith 66 fully cocked.
An oldtimer on the elevator said "nobody move" and slowly unsnapped the rooks holster and removed the revolver and un-cocked it.

When asked why the heck he is carrying a revolver fully cocked his reply was ..
"Well my partner does"
We met the partner...he was carrying a locked/cocked Colt 1911.
 
You want to see a discussion, argument, insults and general lively debate on cocked and locked vs hammer down on a live one vs empty chamber for the 1911, consult the 1911 Forum.

It ran many, many, many pages about a month ago.

I think valid points were made regarding all the choices, especially the cocked and locked view vs the hammer down on a live one view. The hammer down concept has its adherents especially with the Series 80 Colt style firing pin block which has been copied by a number of other 1911 makers including Remington and Sig Sauer.

On that forum, it's considered that the best of the movies showing realistic use of the 1911 were Thief with James Caan and Way of the Gun with Benicio del Toro.
 
In Man of the House, Tommy Lee Jones is a Texas Ranger babysitting a bunch of UT cheerleaders.

Near the end of the flick, where he goes to trade a bagful of stolen money to the rogue FBI agent, in return for his daughter, both the gun he puts in the bag with the money, and the gun he later takes out of the center console of his truck, are cocked and locked.
 
The 1911 is designed to be carried cocked and locked. It looks "scary" to people who aren't familiar with guns, because you can actually see the hammer whereas you can't see the hammer or striker on other guns (like a Glock, for example.) With the thumb safety and grip safety, a 1911 in proper working order is VERY safe to carry cocked and locked.

The readiness condition of a 1911 is usually described as:


Condition Four: Chamber empty, empty magazine, hammer down.

Condition Three: Chamber empty, full magazine in place, hammer down.

Condition Two: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer down.

Condition One: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety on.

Condition Zero: A round chambered, full magazine in place, hammer cocked, safety off.

I would venture to guess that most "real" people carry in either condition one or three. Condition two is not very safe to achieve, because it requires that you lower the hammer on a live round. Interestingly enough, many people routinely do so on a revolver with no ND, but with a 1911, it's harder to do because of the configuration of the gun.

As has been previously mentioned, Hollywood is the last place one should consider as a "how to" source when it comes to guns and their use. I sure would like to have some of the guns they use, though...like revolvers that shoot 14 rounds and semi-automatics that never run out of ammo. Then of course there are the guns that blow up buildings, cars, and knock bad guys right out of their socks. :p
 
Many new 1911 don't even have a half cock anymore. Hammer down on a GI style 1911 could possibly have a AD if dropped just right. The empty chamber was the way the army carried in rear areas, I did this for a short while and learned it is way too slow for most real life encounters with wildlife pests (Let alone two leg pests). I also used to carry on half cock and found it much slower than cocked and locked. I like the "Intimidation factor", but will gladly eject a live round to get it. The most common carry 1911's, I use now days are Para-Ordnance LDA (Light Double Action) in 3.25" (6+1) and 3.75" (double stack 12). They still have grip safeties and thumb safeties. Mine come out of IWB or Small Of the Back (the system won't use the normal abbreviation) fast and on target. I have 2 Colt Commanders and 6 G.I.'s I carry them all cocked and locked. Ivan
 
You want to see a discussion, argument, insults and general lively debate on cocked and locked vs hammer down on a live one vs empty chamber for the 1911, consult the 1911 Forum.

It ran many, many, many pages about a month ago.

I think valid points were made regarding all the choices, especially the cocked and locked view vs the hammer down on a live one view. The hammer down concept has its adherents especially with the Series 80 Colt style firing pin block which has been copied by a number of other 1911 makers including Remington and Sig Sauer.

On that forum, it's considered that the best of the movies showing realistic use of the 1911 were Thief with James Caan and Way of the Gun with Benicio del Toro.
Two really good movies. James Caan handled a 1911 great. Sometimes his gun looked like a long slide. Note cop tech. advisor Dennis Farina as a henchman in his first movie there. Don't remember about Way Of The Gun as far as 1911's go, but that was a good modern version of butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
 
I carried a .45 commander in condition one for several years, and then switched over to a Browning HiPower which I also carried in condition one. Only once in those years did anyone ever comment, and it happened to be a customer standing behind me in line at a convenience store. I was carrying in the open, as at the time I worked on a small town police department and almost everyone in town knew who we were. This gentleman asked me if I was aware that my pistol was cocked, and I said yes, thank-you, I am aware. He seemed genuinely confused but let it go.
In any event, I carried that way because at the time there weren't that many double action semi auto pistols in common use, and the training doctrine that one could find on semi auto pistols in those days tended towards the Colt 1911 and its variations. I held to the idea that any motion, other than releasing a safety during the draw, was an unnecessary delay that could easily get you killed in a fight. I am in agreement with those who advise to disregard Hollywood nonsense. Their motivation is to entertain and mine was to stay alive.
 
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Hammer down on a GI style 1911 could possibly have a AD if dropped just right.

Not really an issue on modern 1911s...they either have a FPS (which I don't care for) or an extremely light firing pin, which prevents inertial impacts. The main reason I'd be concerned about dropping a modern 1911 is damage to the frame/slide...it really pains me when I see (in TV shows and movies) guys toss their guns down on the pavement. I know it's not real, and they use prop guns, but still...it's the thought that makes me shudder.
 
GKC mentions that revolvers have regularly had their hammers lowered on a live round without a ND.

In the Smith case, if you trip the hammer with the trigger and immediately take your finger off the trigger, it's very safe to lower the hammer with the thumb and should it slip, the hammer block will be in place before the hammer lands fully down.

In a way, with the Series 80 Colts, the system is similar in that if you trip the hammer by pulling the trigger while blocking the hammer with your off hand thumb and immediately removing your finger from the trigger, the firing pin block will reengage.
You can then lower the hammer to its quarter cock (not the old half cock position) and from there you pull the trigger to trip the hammer all the way down to rest. YES! Colt says you can safely trip the hammer from quarter cock with the trigger and the gun won't go off. It's a proven system. This only applies to the so-called Series 80 system.

With that said, please fellas, don't start in on me because that's not the way it was done and shouldn't be done with such 1911 models made by Ruger, Springfield, S&W E models nor really with the Swartz system formerly employed by Smith and now Kimber. And no, I personally don't advocate the hammer down on a live round method as I prefer the cocked and locked system regardless the vintage or make of the 1911.
 
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Carried a Govt model for a few months here in MT when the PD was just allowing for the switch from revolvers to autos. Carried it in a safariland duty rig, cocked and locked.

It seemed that if I was in a cafe, coffee shop, 7-11, etc. Someone would say..... "Do you know your gun is cocked"? Or something along those lines.

Maybe we are friendly and approachable...but it got old educating the public on the 1911 safety system. I quickly bought a SIG 220 which back then was the Browning BDA. No more questions.
 
I was never in the movies, but one of my partners slightly resembled Gary Cooper in the wrong light and he carried a Browning HP in Condition 2. I briefly carried a .45 Commander the same way until they made us switch to 9mm and I fell in love with the 39-2.

All of the officers in the town where I now live (not the same town where I served) carry 1911s in Condition 1.
 
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