Two hand grip style

[Florida Shooter]

Although I've been a shooter since the age of 10, I'm only recently a handgun shooter [last 2 years] for purposes of concealed carry and personal defense. I have two pistols - the M&P full size in 9mm and just recently the M&P Shield [also 9mm]. At an informal shoot, one of the instructors who also was a part of the meet up group watched me shoot and said I'd shoot better using the "thumbs forward" two-handed grip rather than the "thumb-on-thumb" grip that I've been using [she called it the "revolver grip"]. That's the second time a professional has volunteered that info.

I'm not at all comfortable with thumbs forward, which I've tried before, and it's a slower way for me to get a two-handed grip from holster to presentation. Is the thumbs forward grip really all that much better?

 

[Silversmok3]

For me, it certainly helps.

The problem with the Weaver stance sometimes is that consistent shots tend to be hard to make, with the push-pull effort being needed to maintain an even grip. Holding my 5903 with the thumbs forward grip properly means the piece basically "rests" in my support hands with little adjustment or effort needed once the grip is established.

It takes some adjusting, admittedly, but once the initial weirdness wears off you'll find the gun basically sits naturally in your hands with that grip, freeing your trigger finger to do its work unmolested by grip issues. Whereas with the "revolver grip" and Weaver push-pull you get unwanted movement of the gun in your hands.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

I shoot every semi-auto with the thumbs forward grip regardless of size. If the semi-auto has an extended thumb safety, I ride it with my grip thumb on top of it.

When I first started shooting pistols I slowly transitioned to the thumbs forward grip because it just felt really odd and I thought the slide was going to bash or cut my thumb. :

Since getting proficient with that grip a long time ago, I wouldn't shoot them any other way and find it quite easy to get the gun out of the holster and into action quickly.

The revolver grip must be done on a revolver so you don't cook your thumb with the escaping gases in front of the cylinder.

Some videos to help
Amazing Thumbs Forward Grip for Semi-Automatic Handguns - YouTube

The guy is using an M&P in this one
Thumb Position for Pistol Shooting - YouTube

 

[Poohgyrr]

Both styles have their strong points. I still prefer the thumb down on thumb for the extra retention and control. Mas Ayoob has discussed these two grips on several articles, forum postings, and his books like StressFire; I'd google him and read what he has to say. In the end, I think it is part of the personal decision about carrying a gun...

My thoughts, and worth what they cost....

 

[scooter123]

The revolver grip must be done on a revolver so you don't cook your thumb with the escaping gases in front of the cylinder.

Not true. The thumbs forward grip can be used with any K, L, or N frame revolver without the slightest risk of someone with normal hands burning a thumb. My hands run to the larger end of "average" and the only issue with using the thumbs forward grip is that my trigger finger tickles my support hand thumb. The key with using this grip with a revolver is to keep your finger off the front of the trigger guard, that will cause a burn.

 

[Osmosis]

I use the thumbs forward grip when shooting my J frame Model 60 and have never had a problem. I do have smallish hands and the larger Hogue grips though.

 

[Nakanokalronin]

Not true. The thumbs forward grip can be used with any K, L, or N frame revolver without the slightest risk of someone with normal hands burning a thumb. My hands run to the larger end of "average" and the only issue with using the thumbs forward grip is that my trigger finger tickles my support hand thumb. The key with using this grip with a revolver is to keep your finger off the front of the trigger guard, that will cause a burn.

Yea, I guess it depends on hand size. I'm thinking of myself since most revolvers except for X frames have me running a risk of thumb ouch.

Then again, it may depend on frame size but why not use the same grip for every revolver? I use the same grip for any size revolver and the thumbs forward for any size semi-auto making picking up any handgun/revolver quite easy to get on target without question of grip.

It depends on the individual, but I like to keep things consistent and practice that way.

 

[patbelly]

I had to learn the thumbs forward after I bought a BG380. Could not pull the trigger all the way back using the other grip. Trigger finger kept hitting my grip thumb. Anyway, learned the thumbs forward works for all my handguns and is much more comfortable. Also, you can get a better purchase of the grip with the thumb pad of the support hand.

 

[krallstar]

thumb forward

I have been shooting handguns for awhile. Always used thumbs down. Last year my club started an action shooting event. Twice a month. When i first went i had never drawn from a holster. This event allowed me to use what i thought was good hand gunning to the test. I could shoot decent enough groups but never tried for practical shooting. The instructors watched us go thru a session and then offered his experience. Most of us were using the thumb down. He showed us the thumb forward. It felt weird at first but now i don't even notice. Grip just goes there. I know for sure i am shooting better. Practice practice practise

 

[Florida Shooter]

If one practices practices practices with either grip, no doubt the shooting will improve. I'm not within light years of where I want to be and about the same distance from where most of you guys are. However, I'm not averse to sharing my impressions from time to time - for whatever it's worth, as "they" say.

Today, for the first time [believe it or not] I shot one handed. I also shot thumbs forward and thumb over thumb. As of today, I discovered that sight picture and trigger squeeze will make or break me in one handed shooting or either form of two handed shooting. When I concentrated on sight picture and trigger squeeze, I did not so bad. Otherwise, if I jerked the gun or yanked the trigger, it was just awful. It was about the same result for me in each of the three modes I've mentioned. Now, this probably shows no more than a green horn's discovery. But just sayin' . . .

 

[toocool]

I've tried numerous times to shoot using "thumbs forward." No matter how I try, or under whose instruction, I can't hit the side of a barn from the inside using thumbs forward. Thumbs down works best for me; I shoot faster and more accurately with that grip.

 

[Oldherkpilot]

I spent 35 years shooting thumbs down. Last month, I finally parted with some of my hard-earned money for some formal training at a place called TDI down near Cincinnati. They teach the thumbs forward technique and gave good reasons for using it. I spent most of the three days unlearning bad habits, but came away a true believer in the thumbs forward hold. I had to do some surgery on my Hi Power's slide stop, but it works. They emphasized that not only is the thumb forward, but the wrist is locked down. Like when you play volley ball (if you can remember that far back!) Also, more grip pressure is applied with the weak hand than the strong hand. Give it a fair trial, but like everything, it boils down to personal preference. Good luck!

 

[Desert Dog]

<snip> I'm not at all comfortable with thumbs forward, which I've tried before, and it's a slower way for me to get a two-handed grip from holster to presentation. Is the thumbs forward grip really all that much better?

Its likely not that thumbs forward is inherently slower, but rather, that you've not yet developed sufficent muscle memory to allow yourself to go faster. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Pro shooter Todd Jarrett is so smooth and fast with thumbs forward, that you simply cannot make a case for slowness being a function of a thumbs forward grip.

I'm going to link below a couple of YouTube videos of Todd Jarrett for you to watch. They provide tips on developing the thumbs forward grip, and as you will see, Todd is absolutely blazing fast at presenting and shooting his pistol -- with thumbs forward.

Sometimes it is the smallest of details that make the biggest difference in complicated sporting activities. I had this happen to me with just one tip on skiing. In that case, I learned to focus on driving my knees forward (down the mountain); and suddenly everything else just came together as it never had previously.

Same thing for me with shooting pistols. I had grown up with the Weaver stance, but had tinkered on-and-off with the isosceles stance for years. I liked the way the isosceles created more of a turret base from which to shoot at mutiple targets, but with my grip, it just never seemed right. Shooting thumbs high always worked with my usual Weaver stance, but not so well with the isosceles. So rather than changing my thumbs high grip, I went back to what I knew worked.

Some time back I watched Todd Jarrett teaching the thumbs forward technique (there are tons of videos with him out there). The one little thing that was missing for me, was not rotating my support hand forward. Once I rotated my hand forward 45 degrees, my wrist moved in line with forearm and the light bulb came ON! Just a little break at the elbows and now my hands stayed tight and steady and the elbows worked like shock absorbers. Way faster and more consistent keeping the front sight on target and working the trigger. Wish I had learned this a little bit sooner...

Watch this first video of Todd teaching his shooting stance and grip:

Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting. - YouTube

The second video is very poorly edited and hard to follow, but if you watch past those short comings, you will see at the 4:15 time mark, the exact rotating of the wrist motion that make the thumbs forward grip work.

Todd Jarrett shooting tips - YouTube


HTH

 

[Florida Shooter]

Thanks for the input, DD. Bear in mind [as I do, believe me] that I'm not Todd Jarret. I'm a seventy plus year old citizen taking responsibility for my own self defense and also enjoying shooting at stuff [and hitting it a lot of times, too]. I want to do what works NOW. If I wait for tomorrow, I may be singing with the angels [or whoever those other guys are in the other direction].

It's very gratifying to have people share their respective points of view. Thanks again.

 

[Desert Dog]

Happy to share, FS.

Not many on this planet are even close to being a shooter of Todd Jarrett's caliber. He makes it look sooooo darn easy. I think he mentioned having put 2 million rounds down range!

But you really don't have to be Todd Jarrett, to benefit from the wisdom of his experience. Just pick up an empty pistol in the isosceles stance, grasp the pistol with your thumbs forward and see if rotating your support hand 45 degrees feels good to you.

I find that there is far less of the sort of push-pull generated, shaking (from gripping hard) sort of tension, than is the case with my usual Weaver stance. The transition time was almost immediate for me (as in one or two range sessions), as the grip just felt natural, and when shooting, it was markedly easier to consistently control and hit what I was aiming at. Who knows, could be an ah-HA moment for you too.

 

[Florida Shooter]

The jury was still out. Today I found I was missing the page the target was on. Finally, I asked one of the pros at the range to shoot it. Sure enough, it fired very high and left. After a few adjustments, I was hitting the 10X and close to it. But here's the interesting part -

My one handed shooting was better than the thumbs forward two handed shooting! The thumbs forward feels more than strange - it knocks my left thumb off the gun when a shot is fired. The M&P Shield is a small gun, and I have concluded that shooting it thumbs forward is not a good idea - for me. I'm sticking with what works so that I can use it in this lifetime. I've already lived longer than my father - who knows when my number will be up? Shooting one handed or thumb-on-thumb two handed gets me where I want to be - in this lifetime.