Two piece barrels and lock

[Oldlawdawg53]

I own, and have owned, many S&W revolvers over the years. Including carrying one on my hip for many years. After many years of exploring the auto-loader game, I've revisited the S&W revolvers.

I purchased a new S&W model 60 with the full underlug 3" barrel. Unfortunately, it has the built in lock. Nice revolver, but the lock detracts from the gracefull lines of the original configured revolver.

I had a 4" and 6" Model 19 and model 66 in the past. But for reasons only know at the time I traded them off for the "latest must have" item to come along. Leaving me with a desire to own another 19 or 66 revolver.

I ended up driving 150 miles round trip to look at some M-66 police trade-ins.Well my hopes and dreams were quickly dashed when I was handed a nice looking Model 66-7. I immediately noticed the presence of the internal lock, and to make things even more dire, it also has a two piece barrel. Well, I purchased it anyway and after getting home I noticed a couple "mushy" areas in the grip. It came with a set of Large square butt pachmyer's. I removed the stocks only to discover that the revolver was actually a round butt revolver sporting a pair of aftermarket grips for a square butt K-frame.

Bottom line my questions are:

1. When did they start making the Model 66 revolvers with a two-piece barrel? and why? When asked about it, the guy at the shop told me that it wasn't 2 piece and that S&W makes its revolver barrels that way to protect the crown from damage. I'm not buying that, but I could be wrong.

2. Is this revolver up to task with a steady diet of full power .357 magnums? (afterall, my 3" J frame is a 357 and marketed as being able to handle a steady diet of the hotter loads. So did metalurgy change to a stronger alloy?

3. What is the general opinion of this revolver in the new configuration?

Thanks for any and all assistance and advice.

Ray (Oldlawdawg53)

 

[18DAI]

Welcome to the forum!

In answer to your questions;

1) The 66-7 was at the end of model 66 production, and IIRC the only 66 with a two piece barrel. I've never heard what the guy at the shop told you. My guess is he is full of it. The two piece barrel is a manufacturing cost cutting measure, and S&W has discontinued it, according to a S&W memo sent to dealers.

2) Yes. Shoot all the 158 grain 357's you can afford. I've got a 66-2 with over 25,000 rounds through it. 125 grain 357's are the load which causes trouble with the K-frame magnum.

3) I own 14 model 66's all lock free. My favorites are the 66-2's. Solid barrel and forged, flash chromed hammer and trigger. Mine are tack drivers and suitable for serious purposes as well as range work.

If you don't like that 66-7 after shooting it, you can always take it and trade it for a model 19 or pre lock 66. Good luck! Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI.

 

[Wayne M]

Like you my aversion to the lock is more aesthetic than anything else. I've dealt with lock revolvers before and can again, just don't like to look at it: not a major deal breaker. The two piece barrel guns I've seen with loose shrouds(six known instances on the N frames) and two cases where the two piece became at least three pieces(including one notable example here on the Forum). Won't knowingly own the multi piece barrel. With all that said, many people own two piecers and the problems seem to have been solved but Murphy can strike anytime and the more parts that there are in the gun the more there is to possibly go wrong at the most wrong time in your life.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Bullseye Smith makes a plug for the hole left when you remove the lock.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

3. What is the general opinion of this revolver in the new configuration?
QUOTE]

I work on them and my personal opinion on your gun is it's safe and reliable. It's barrel is tensioned and is more accurate then the older "traditional" barrels. Sure, to most of us they look funny but they are shooters.
MIM guns are well made and the parts are easier to service because there is less fitting, but some of the internal springs are a PITA to put back together.
The lock for sport is fine, but I won't trust it for protection, as they have issues with reliability. Disabling the lock is also a personal liability issue which I don't recommend if carried for protection. The plug, endorsed by some is a cosmetic approach to hide the lock cylinder. Another method is to add a a screw to replace the cylinder. Honestly, simply removing the locking arm disables the lock.
See the faq sticky in the smithing section.

 

[Old Navy]

How were these two piece barrels made? I am a Dan Wesson nut with those super accurate tensioned barrels & shrouds. Is the S&W 2 piece barrel just a liner like used on some alloy guns I have seen. I wasn't too impressed with the looks of them, but for a light weight CCW that only shot ocassionly I guess it is ok. I would not want one as a regular shooter hoiwever.

 

[scooter123]

How were these two piece barrels made? I am a Dan Wesson nut with those super accurate tensioned barrels & shrouds. Is the S&W 2 piece barrel just a liner like used on some alloy guns I have seen. I wasn't too impressed with the looks of them, but for a light weight CCW that only shot ocassionly I guess it is ok. I would not want one as a regular shooter hoiwever.

They are fully tensioned barrels. However, they are not user replacable or adjustable. Instead of a nut at the front of the barrel there is a large flange that engages the barrel shroud. They also require the use of a special tool that engages in the rifling in order to tighten them, so if one should work loose the gun will have to go back to the factory. Good news is that they are tightened to a higer level of torque than was possible with the small tool that Dan Wesson provided with their revolvers. So, the barrel is under a bit more tension than the DW revolvers and my 620 which uses this barrel is exceptionally accurate. According to a review in Gunblast the 620 they tested was the most accurate S&W they had ever tested. I know that on 2 seperate occasion that I managed 3 hole cloverleafs at 30 feet I could cover with a dime. This was done shooting it in single action off a hard bench when I was fine tuning the sighting. BTW, the first time I did this I was stunned, so I went out and did it again to see if it was just a fluke. It wasn't, I do believe that on a good day I could center punch a row of quarters lined up in a groove on a 2 x 4.

 

[Old Navy]

They also require the use of a special tool that engages in the rifling in order to tighten them, so if one should work loose the gun will have to go back to the factory. Good news is that they are tightened to a higher level of torque than was possible with the small tool that Dan Wesson provided with their revolvers. So, the barrel is under a bit more tension than the DW revolvers and my 620 which uses this barrel is exceptionally accurate.

I doubt they used much more torque then the DW's do as it is just not needed. I know the barrels all tighten up some on DW's when you shoot them and you have to be careful as not to over torque as you will have problems removing the locking nut.

Another nice thing about the DW setup is tunning the barrel and gap as required for your shooting. When seeking max FPS and range for knocking down the steel or dropping game at 100 to 200 yards nothing beats that tunned barrel on a Dan Wesson and the triggers on a DW out the box will rival a PC tunned Smith.

But you are right about these new S&W's being more accurate then other S&W guns. To me it is about time someone put the tensioned barrel to use at S&W or Ruger since DW (CZ) no longer cares if other infringe on their patent on the barrel. Man I would kill for a S&W 610 with tensioned barrel, with that flat shooting 10mm round it would be one hard to beat gun for accuracy and range. But if cylinder bored to 10mm magnum and the tensioned barrel were used it would be almost unbeatable.

Well a guy can dream can't he???

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

One thing is S&W has the wrench to remove the barrels. They want to kill the "outside the factory repair guys".... They have a tool that slips into the rifling, then they tighten it up. (It's not available for sale.) The outside is just a cover. I would assume not only is it more accurate but a less expensive set up as well.

 

[Old Navy]

One thing is S&W has the wrench to remove the barrels. They want to kill the "outside the factory repair guys".... They have a tool that slips into the rifling, then they tighten it up. (It's not available for sale.) The outside is just a cover. I would assume not only is it more accurate but a less expensive set up as well.

If they did it like Dan Wesson did then they also did away with the separate forcing cone, the time and effort it takes to get a fixed barrel inserted and then forcing cone filed to get correct B/C gap tolerance.

That leaves a shroud that can have about any thing you want done to it done with ease and cheaper.

 

[scooter123]

I would be surprized if S&W did any hand fitting on the guns with a 2 piece barrel. Machining centers in good condition today are capable of holding tolerances of 0.0005 inch or less. With the proper fixturing there is no reason that these guns couldn't be machined to final dimensions and have the assembly hold a tolerance stackup of 0.007 inch or less. They could also sort components by size and select fit the guns so that a the total deviation fell within the range of 0.004 inch or less. That is probably the only true cost savings involved in building the 2 piece barrels. People forget that the barrel and shroud on these guns require precision machining for both parts and that probably drives the cost of this system UP instead of DOWN.

 

[Old Navy]

It is hard to believe that the tensioned barrel is more expensive then the one piece barrel, until you put it that way. I know one thing and that is my DW's that I have shot against other guns has always came out in front group size and even trigger wise. My 744 is very light and smooth on DA, but on SA it is just think it to fire. There is no gritty feel or unnecessary over travel or creep and probably about 3/4 lb to 1lb range for SA mode.

My 722 VH8 (22 WMR & LR 8" barrel) besides out shooting some pistols has even out shot some rifles and that includes one of my own, a Ruger 96/22WMR that I am really found of and is an excellent woods rifle.