Unanimously Absurd and Impractical

[TennTony]

Understanding that this might stir up a few people, let me get some opinions. I am thinking about a radical change to urban concealed carry. Would carrying as much as a 629, 4" barrel, down to a .38 Special snubby, loaded with full power blanks make sense? Think magnum primer behind 10 to 20 grains of Unique or 2400. The plug can be wax or a number of other compounds.

Based on a recent Seattle, WA incident, three drug dealers/criminals got into a gun fight injuring some bystanders and killing one of the bystanders. In such a case I would seek cover first and not engage without being certain of my opponent, especially since I am not a LEO and can only engage as a matter of self defense. But, in very close quarters (less than 10 feet) a properly designed blank should stun and possibly blind an opponent. Pressed against a torso it would likely be fatal. Close to any body part it would likely disable a person. At more than 15 to 20 feet it should not cause any serious injury to bystanders as there is no real projectile or bullet.

This would be similar to the frangible bullet concept and would be designed to contain damage exclusively to the intended target. Is this just a lawsuit looking for an idiot to volunteer to lose his assets? Does it make sense to anyone besides me? Has anyone ever seen this suggested before? I doubt I would ever do this but thinking about it I liked the idea.

I totally do not mind if you think this is absurd. I might.

I appreciate all the responses everyone provided. I agree.

I also failed to mention that while bystanders were injured, none of the shooters hit their intended target.

 

[BC38]

I vote for absurd.

Handgun rounds aren't guaranteed man-stoppers, even with real bullets.

A wax or even rubber bullet is likely to not only not stop an assailant, but more than likely will just make them REALLY angry.

Feel free to give it a try though, and if you ever have to use them for self defense and actually survive the experience, please come back and tell us how it went. I'd love to learn that I was wrong on this one.

 

[Kanewpadle]

"Not an LEO and can only engage as a matter of self defense"

Self defense with blanks, wax or rubber bullets is impossible. It has been well documented that people stop their attacks for two reasons. The realization that they have been shot, or the central nervous system has been shut down.

It has also been documented that some people never realized that they had been shot. Or if they did, they never slowed or stopped their attack.

My point is, do you think blanks or wax bullets will stop someone when real bullets sometimes don't?

Kind of like shooting a bear with a pellet gun. Don't overthink things. Training and practice will help put this kind of thinking out of your mind.

 

[fmflorida]

Lets assume a mugger has a....shall we say poor temperament.....Hes trying to get your wallet from you and he has a knife......you shoot him with a blank and it injures him but not enough to stop the threat.....does he A) get more ticked off and filet you like a trout....or B) back off and apologize....

Im gonna say 99% of the time option A is your outcome.

The one thing you didnt mention is where the shot that hurt bystanders hit first......If you shoot a person and it grazes their arm.....yes that bullet could hit someone else.....if you hit a person in the chest......over penetration becomes a non issue.....(Im talking normal self defense calibers......not ridiculous 50AE or anything absurd)......

We also know.....at no fault of their own, most of the time anyway.......police departments only qualify their officers once or twice a year......If that officer isnt proficient with his weapon....again thats a training issue.

Point is, if you practice with your weapon, you use decent hollow point ammunition and you HIT your target.....you have no issues.

Using "fake" ammo is a good way to get yourself hurt or worse.

 

[Rudi]

If you legally carry a handgun why on earth would you load it with blanks??? STUPID was not an option in the post. But that's my answer. Bring a gun(loaded)to a gun fight. They say there are no stupid questions, but this one pushes the case. Better off with a taser.

 

[RobertJ.]

I'll go with absurd.

The only reason to draw and fire is to stop a threat. Use ammo that will do that.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I go with absurd. If some strung-out clown coming down off a three day meth binge isn't impressed with the appearance of your gat shooting blanks isn't going to impress him either.

 

[moosedog]

I'll go with totally absurd. If your that worried about factors other than your self preservation, maybe you should not be carrying.

 

[murphydog]

In the scenario you describe, it appears several opposing...uh, "pharmaceutical merchants" were in a gunfight and bystanders were caught in the crossfire. In this situation it seems the better decision would be to seek hard cover, or departing the area if possible, rather than engaging the participants.

If you do draw a gun and fire at them (with wax or real bullets), you risk not only being shot at by 'both' sides in the conflict but also by responding law enforcement. All involved will shoot first and the police will ask questions later, if you are still alive to respond.

Finally, WA state appears to have remarkably sane laws about the use of deadly force, meaning you are allowed to use such force if you are in (reasonable or actual) fear of your life. Any means to defend yourself would then be justified, so as mentioned above if you are justified in using your gun you should have real ammunition. I am betting the other parties to the gunfight did.

And 20 grains of Unique in any handgun cartridge where the pressure is contained in the case and gun might make an effective hand grenade...except you would be the one holding it.

 

[Breakaway500]

I recently saw someone purchasing rubber bullet cartridges and questioned them on their choice of ammo. They responded that they didn't want to kill anyone...just scare them off. I asked if they would feel the same way if a rabid dog was attacking their significant other? "Hell no!" was the response.I then said what is the difference if it's a human doing the same thing? He thought about it...and went back and grabbed a box of real ammo.
Sure..collateral damage can happen...BUT it happens a lot less if you are aware of the possibility before you pull the trigger and PLAN your shots accordingly,like every good gunner should. There really is not enough emphasis placed on this aspect of shooting in gun handling classes.

 

[misswired]

This very scenario happened between two co-workers engaged in a bar fight. The guy with the snubby had blanks loaded as the first round, then every other round. He also had one leg and used a crutch. The other guy was a big burly man,

I wasn't a witness but the story is; the drunken actors escalated to a fight. Of course the one legged guy didn't stand a chance so he pulls his pistol and shots the burly guy in the face with a blank. Burly guy thinks he may be mortally wounded and pulls his knife. Filleted would be a proper description of what happened next. The shooter never had the chance to fire again with the actual hollow point ammo that was next up in the revolver.

Burly guy lost a tooth and was mildly powder burned on the face. He was back at work in three days. The shooter of blanks spent weeks in ICU and then months at home recovering from the knife wounds.

Years later, I was joking about fighting with burly guy when an old machinist lol and says you better leave him alone. You do remember when he spit out Buddy's bullets?

That is a true story, and something to ponder.

 

[steelslaver]

Absurd. First of all legally the law doesn't care if the bullet is lead, brass, wood or wax.

Next any real amount of powder behind a wax bullet would probably blow right through the wax.

When it comes time to defend me and mine against someone bent on harm, I am going all in. The whole thing won't be my idea, but his. Why should I be concerned about his positive welfare?

 

[Simson-Suhl]

I do not believe the 2400 or even the bullseye powder will completely burn behind a wax bullet in the amounts you stated due to the lack of weight and bullet pull within the case
You may produce a burning glob of wax with very little velocity. If you wish to shoot wax bullets, just use magnum primers alone.
As far as your idea., leave your pistol/revolver at home and purchase one of those Police Batons that look like an old car radio aerial.
Better yet, rent yourself a United States Marine!

 

[Smoke]

If you're not willing to shoot somebody with a real bullet you need to rethink carrying a gun at all

 

[BAM-BAM]

I'll hold off judgement until I can get one of those Phasers that you can set to stun.

 

[oysterer]

See how 'blinding' someone and fighting that someone in court is going to go down well.

Either you have a situation or not. It seems to me that you can't defend yourself a little bit and come out good either way.

You also won't be able to predict the situation you are going to be in. Image you end up in a real fight, then you wish you had more than wax.

 

[AlHunt]

I don't think anyone should fault your intention but I agree with the others here that it's a bad idea.

I think a less lethal option for non law enforcement types is generally a bad idea. It complicates your self defense decisions, probably require extra equipment and training and slow down your own response time. Furthermore, it may beg the question "Why didn't you do __X__?"

Don't over complicate someone else's bad decision to attack you.

 

[Nomadmax]

OP, I wouldn't have done what you're suggesting when I was diagnosed with cancer and wasn't expected to live.

I was a member of large city in Ohio SWAT team and deployed less than lethal rounds from a 12 gauge shotgun and a 40 mm smooth bore. I've seen people continue to do what they were doing before being hit with both of those. Your idea pales in comparison to either of of these options so I would urge you to re-consider.

When you decide to go armed and have to use it, you must absolutely know that someone is going to be hurt or killed. If you aren't good with that in your heart of hearts, maybe you should reconsider going armed in public.

The typed word is much different than when spoken. This post isn't meant to be condescending or trite. I typed it out of genuine concern for your safety.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I agree with what everyone has said regarding this as a very bad idea.

To expand on what steelslaver said, legally speaking, using a firearm is considered deadly force. If you use a firearm in a less-than-lethal manner, such as firing warning shots or intending to shoot to wound, charging authorities may determine that you thought the situation did not require deadly force, but used it anyway, which could lead to criminal charges. I don't know what the legal situation is regarding law enforcement using less-than-lethal rounds in specific circumstances.

Also, just because you're using blanks doesn't mean you can't injure or kill someone. One of the lead actors, I can't remember his name, from the TV show Voyagers killed himself after fooling around with a blank-loaded prop gun. I also recall an incident involving the Boston police where an officer was using rubber "knee-knocker" rounds and, IIRC, one of those rounds killed someone after it struck that person in the head.

All around, you'd just be better off carrying real ammo and acknowledging the risk or just not carrying a gun at all.

Just my opinion.

 

[DWARREN123]

Carry what you feel comfortable with and can shoot accurately. Better to hit with a .22lr than miss with a .44 mag.