Undecided On Steel Or Brass Case For New M&P15 Sport II

[CarMon225]

I've got a new M&P15 Sport II on the way. I've done quite a bit of research regarding brass vs. steel cased bullets, and I understand that steel will wear out my barrel and other components faster, but yet it is much cheaper 1000 rounds of Wolf steel is as low as 22 CPR.. Given the price of replacement parts (today's prices), it seems that the most cost-effective approach would be to go with steel. I will not be reloading.

Although I doubt this will happen, what if something happens with gun law reform and they ban "assault" rifles again - will that drive prices of replacement barrels and other parts up to the point where I could be kicking myself for buying steel?

This will be my first rifle and I will be plinking with it and perhaps using it for home defense.

Anybody else use Wolf steel cased ammo in your M&P15? How often are you seeing malfunctions?

Your brand new first rifle - what would you do?

 

[MattO]

I just bought a brand new M&P2. I will not be running steel through it.

 

[AlHunt]

I will not be reloading.


Your brand new first rifle - what would you do?

I would use brass because I reload. In your case, if the steel cased is cheaper and serves your needs, use the steel.

AR-15's are so ubiquitous that replacement parts aren't going away any time soon.

Or, use brass and sell your once-fireds to someone for the cost differential.

 

[WVSig]

I've got a new M&P15 Sport II on the way. I've done quite a bit of research regarding brass vs. steel cased bullets, and I understand that steel will wear out my barrel and other components faster, but yet it is much cheaper 1000 rounds of Wolf steel is as low as 22 CPR.. Given the price of replacement parts (today's prices), it seems that the most cost-effective approach would be to go with steel. I will not be reloading.

Although I doubt this will happen, what if something happens with gun law reform and they ban "assault" rifles again - will that drive prices of replacement barrels and other parts up to the point where I could be kicking myself for buying steel?

This will be my first rifle and I will be plinking with it and perhaps using it for home defense.

Anybody else use Wolf steel cased ammo in your M&P15? How often are you seeing malfunctions?

Your brand new first rifle - what would you do?

I don't have a Sport II but have a few AR15s. I personally shoot brass cases ammo. I do not reload but I still choose brass cased ammo and pick up my brass so if and when I want to reload I have brass.

Luckygunner did a great write up on brass vs steel cased/bi-metal ammo. http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

It is not just wear that is in play IMHO. There will be accuracy and reliability differences. A lot will come down to how and in what conditions you are shooting. Most people are never going to shoot out a barrel no matter what ammo they choose. If you know you are going to shoot over 10,000 rounds from this rifle then shooting out the barrel is a consideration.

Without a doubt you will wear the barrel faster with the bi-metal case. Luckygunner did a test and 6,000 of Wolf steel or Brown Bear shot out an AR15 barrel while after 10,000 of Federal Brass the barrel had a lot of life left in it.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#erosion

You will also see an accuracy drop from steel cased/bi-metal jacketed ammo.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#accuracy

Looking at it realistically you are looking at an $80 per 1000 rounds between Wolf steel and Wolf Gold. A CHF 16" carbine barrel is $249 PSA 16" CHF M4 Carbine 5.56 NATO 1:7 Barrel Assembly - 7790521

If you can install it yourself you will be paid for a new, one might argue, better barrel than the 1/9 twist the Sport came with after 3,000 rounds of Wolf steel. Everything over that is you are ahead assuming that the the accuracy and reliability losses are not issues for you.

I do not think you will see a ban on barrels but if you want to shoot steel I would hedge your bets and after 3,000 buy a new barrel you will be ahead of the curve and still have 3,000 plus rounds left in the barrel and another $240 worth of savings, give or take.

If you look at the luckygunner article you will see that shooting brass over 10,000 rounds will cost you about $1500 more than steel. Their numbers are off because they site a $130 difference when in todays market it is really closer to $80-$90 but you are still ahead by about a $650 assuming one barrel replacement. Like others have said if you ok with the other short comings of the steel cased ammo and want the savings go for it.

 

[sgtsandman]

For steel ammunition to really wear out a barrel, you would have to shoot several thousand rounds before barrel wear becomes a problem. Unless you plan to do a lot of shooting, steel should not be a problem as long as your chamber doesn't cause problems with stuck cases. Unfortunately, the only way to find out if your rifle will like steel or not, is to shoot steel and see what happens.

One also has to consider accuracy. Cheap ammo, especially steel cheap ammo isn't usually the most accurate. If you aren't worried about getting 1" groups at 100 yards, steel might be ok for you.

Me personally, I look to reload and I have a bolt rifle (usually a tighter chamber) that uses the same magazines, so I will not be using steel.

 

[jagular]

Undecided On Steel Or Brass Case For New M&P15 Sport II

I shoot steel exclusively through my sport and haven't had any malfunctions whatsoever. That lucky gunner article has been around awhile now but clarifies the cons of steel case vs brass. After 6-8k rounds of steel case you'll be able to buy an entirely new rifle with the cost savings. It's impossible to predict what will happen if any ban comes around so if you are having doubts go ahead and buy another barrel and bcg.

I shoot steel Ammo so that I can afford to go to the range more often. This will, imo, serve you better than an rifle you can't afford to shoot as much. When accuracy is a concern, get brass cased ammo. If you run an optic you'll need to re-zero it with the ammo of your choice.

 

[JaPes]

The only thing that prevents me from shooting Russian manufacture, steel case, bi-metal jacketed ammo are the ranges near me prohibit it's use. If I still had an AR-15 and I had a range nearby (convenient distance) that allowed steel case ammo, I'd use it all the time.

AR-15's are so ubiquitous, barrels and spare parts can be found everywhere. If you're worried about the upcoming election so much, you might as well buy a spare complete upper.

Even better... buy a 2nd rifle. 2 is 1. 1 is none.

 

[CarMon225]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate you all taking the time to give me your points of view.

 

[cyphertext]

Just remember, all steel cased ammo is not equal. Hornady steel match seems to be very good out of my AR. This round uses the same copper jacketed bullet as the brass cased Hornady, not a bi-metal jacket like the cheap steel cased ammo. May not be cheaper than Wolf Gold, but is very consistent and is HP. FMJ is not allowed at many ranges in my area. It is expensive though, so have to look for deals.

 

[otisrush]

Taking the reloading issue totally out of the equation (which the OP has), based on reports I've read here as well as the 10,000 round test that was run by a (blogger?) - it sure seems that choosing to shoot steel is a totally rational and perfectly fine choice.

I think the brass/steel argument comes down to personal taste and, to a lot of degree, emotion. The very thought of "steel on steel" (steel case in a steel chamber) gives me the willies - like fingernails on a chalkboard. I just grew up in an environment where firearms were things to be treated carefully and, to a large degree, were delicate. (I don't mean "carefully" from a safety standpoint - but that is true obviously as well. I mean from the standpoint that they're precision instruments that shouldn't be manhandled or mishandled. This was before ARs became popular and demonstrated that they can withstand a lot!)

So if steel is seen as an enabler of more fun and greater proficiency - go for it. The objective data show there is little-to-no down side to steel. (At least the data I've seen. The "things wear out more quickly" issue is offset by the fact the savings in ammo cost can be applied to replacing the worn out parts.)

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

For years I used Wolf steel lacquered case. Cheap and performed well. I have nothing but good things to say about steel case other than they don't expand and seal as well as brass so the chamber tends to get a bit dirtier. If you've been shooting of lot of steel case and switch to brass it's possible to get a stuck case in an overly dirty chamber.

I don't shoot quite as much as I used to so I stock up on XM855 and XM193 as availability and price dictates. I picked up a couple 420 cans of XM193 from MassAmmo a couple weeks ago for $138 per can.

 

[overthere]

CarMon225, note that the case being steel has nothing to do with the barrel wearing out faster. What wears out the barrel faster is shooting bi-metal projectiles. Bi-metal projectiles have a steel jacket, typically covered by a thin layer of copper.

You can have brass-cased ammo with bi-metal projectiles and you can have steel-cased ammo with copper jacketed projectiles.

The metal of the case has no bearing on barrel wear, only the metal of the projectile.

Now, there happens to be a correlation in that cheap Russian steel-cased ammo often, perhaps always, has bi-metal projectiles. But it is the projectile that matters in terms of barrel wear, not the metal of the case.

 

[lrrifleman]

Let me add my two cents. I have 4 AR platforms, and I have never put steel case ammo through any of them. I freely admit, I am cheap ... I can make a Scotsman cringe. Virtually all of my shooting is geared towards match accuracy, and most steel case ammo doesn't lean that way. As mentioned earlier, steel cases don't flex like brass does, so you end up with a poor seal. Most of the steel case ammo traces it's origin to Eastern Bloc battle ammo, which tends to be coated with a lacquer, that if it isn't cleaned properly, leads to malfunctions.

That being said, while I wouldn't use steel cased every day, I could see stock piling some for a SHTF scenario. Currently, I do have 1500 rounds of Evansville '43 M1911 Hardball, along with a spare barrel and bushing in the event I have to resort to steel cased 45s!

 

[CarMon225]

CarMon225, note that the case being steel has nothing to do with the barrel wearing out faster. What wears out the barrel faster is shooting bi-metal projectiles. Bi-metal projectiles have a steel jacket, typically covered by a thin layer of copper.

You can have brass-cased ammo with bi-metal projectiles and you can have steel-cased ammo with copper jacketed projectiles.

The metal of the case has no bearing on barrel wear, only the metal of the projectile.

Now, there happens to be a correlation in that cheap Russian steel-cased ammo often, perhaps always, has bi-metal projectiles. But it is the projectile that matters in terms of barrel wear, not the metal of the case.

Yes, after much more reading, and specifically, absorption, I now realize that I am combining and confusing the two separate and distinct qualities of a cartridge which I should have clarified earlier:
Steel vs. brass case
&
copper jacketed vs bi-metal jacketed projectile.

My feeling at this point is that I might go with steel case, but stay away from bi-metal jacket.

So, take for instance this:
500 round case - 223 Rem 62 Grain FMJ Wolf WPA Steel Case Ammo made by Barnaul | SGAmmo.com
It says steel case (OK), and FMJ (OK- I think), but then it says magnetic (implying steel jacket with lead core??).

 

[Racer X]

yes, lead core with a steel-brass jacket.

 

[TX-Dennis]

Anybody else use Wolf steel cased ammo in your M&P15? How often are you seeing malfunctions?

Yes, I am. Malfunctions? Never. I have a few thousand rounds of Wolf steel through my Del-Ton without a single malfunction. I also have a few hundred rounds of it through my M&P without a malfunction. None. Zero. Not one.

I did run across one round with no primer, but of course I did not load that one into a magazine.

 

[CBStuard]

I usually get cases stuck in the chamber after about 100rnds w/ Wolf. I do better w/ MFS which is a zinc plated steel case.

 

[warriorking]

Just got back from the range and put 140 Rounds of Bear steel 223 through my Sport 2 without a single issue...

 

[WVSig]

How much do you anticipate shooting?
For most people 100 rounds per range session is a LOT of shooting!
Generally speaking a barrel subjected to a diet of steel core ammo will last about 18,000 rounds which is quite a lot, and consider than the barrel is EASY to replace on the AR platform.

So you're looking at around 180 shooting sessions of 100 rounds and even THAT is dependent upon how rapidly you shoot. Slower shots prevent heat buildup and lengthens barrel life.

So, if you want to lay-in about $6,000 worth of steel core and bust it down-barrel as fast as possible with each range visit, you MIGHT have a problem, yet even THAT problem is almost ridiculously easy to solve with a barrel swap!

I like the sentiment but I think your numbers are a bit off. I do not think you are going to get 18,000 with a steady diet of bi-metal. Most people report 10,000 to 20,000 out of a chromed lined barrel with brass cased ammo with nonmetallic projectiles.

Bi metal shortens that life. A lot will depend on your MOA demands to determine when a barrel is shot out. Rate of fire definitely is a factor in barrel wear.

That said I would be willing to bet less than 1% of AR15 shooters in the US send more than 10,000 round down their AR15 in a lifetime.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Let's put things into perspective.

Case of IMI M855 at SGAmmo $359
Case of Wolf 62gr steel at SGAmmo $229

You can buy a 16" barrel at Primary Arms for $119 or $99 on sale.

So... if you want to keep your precious Sport barrel new, simply remove it and buy a case of Wolf, a new barrel and have money left over in your pocket.