Unintended consequences

[CAJUNLAWYER]

This is a reply to a post by LoboGunLeather in the thread about license plates getting stolen and defendants not really being held accountable for seemingly minor crimes.

I hear you . Spoken like a true retired beat cop. Problem today is the new sentencing guidelines and all the uproar about locking up a guy for life over a seemingly petty offense forgetting that he has a string of priors and the system finally just got tired of screwing with the guy and launched him and on paper it looks absolutely horrible. See this story Louisiana Supreme Court upholds Black man's life sentence for stealing hedge clippers - CNN All is not lost as the guy recently got released on parole

Another problem at least down here is the fact that the defendants have the upper hand. There is a great uproar about pre trial detention and so we have bail reform. The mantra from even our supreme court to the judges is to get them out of jail pre trial unless they are a danger to society (read violent crimes). Cash bonds are now frowned upon, at least informally. (The bail bondsmen are really taking it on the chin )Bail set using these guidelines is fairly east to make unless they catch you with blood on your hands or a bloody sneaker in the grill of your car.

My duty as a defense lawyer is to do everything possible to get clients out of jail using no subtrefuge other than the law and I am quite successful in obtaining pre trial release for most of my clients and quite frankly make no apologies for the fact.

Herein lies the problem.

Once clients are out of jail there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever to get a plea bargain from the client's perspective. No client in his/her right mind is going to plea guilty to ANYTHING that involves jail time. Due to the evisceration of the habitual offender laws, there is no stick that the DA's can use to force a plea rather than trial.

Due to the marching orders issued to the judges from the Supreme Court, there is no "Trial Premium" (Defendant gets more time after going to trial and not taking the plea bargain-a horrible practice that was an insidious part of the Criminal justice system. It was there, everyone knew it, nobody talked about it other than under their breaths and it played an important part in advice to clients and plea negotiation).

So basically the defendant has absolutely nothing more to loose by going to trial. Down here we get one jury trial a month. We have three sections of criminal court. That means that the section the defendant is in gets four jury trial weeks per year.

Factor in the fact that the people remaining in jail on serious offenses get top priority (there are enough of them to fill up the jury weeks-believe me)layered on top of the COVID scare and it is no wonder that the system is overwhelmed. Dockets that used to hover around 100-120 are now approaching 300.

With all this in play, there is no way I can ethically advise a client to even plead guilty to a felony with a suspended sentence. Because I know that the likelihood of ever getting to trial is slim to none. I mean is the DA really gonna piss away 5-6000 for a jury trial on a less than 2 gram possession of meth or a burglary case where someone's lawn mower is stolen.

From my point of view the system is in the middle of total collapse.

And this is from the viewpoint of a small town country lawyer in a three parish mostly rural/small town judicial district. I can just imagine how bad it is in New Orleans or some other big city.

What with the advent of new activist DA's attempting to do social justice, it is a GREAT time to be a criminal defense lawyer.

Which is why as of December 31st 2020 I am officially out of the game.

I will continue to practice but will cherry pick cases and take only what I want to take. I suspect my stress level will go down greatly.

 

[Rpg]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about Counsel.

 

[pharmer]

I’m thinking not enough coffee yet. Joe

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I’m not sure what you’re talking about Counsel.

GO back and read the corrected and expanded post

 

[LVSteve]

When you have a country with the funding for the justice system so finely subdivided, every outlay of every dollar becomes critical. This leads to DAs not wanting to go to trial because of the cost. I don't call that justice, but neither is the practice of blanket plea bargaining.


If our country really wants a justice system that charges for the crimes committed and follows through, it must find the money to make it work.

 

[johngalt]

They need to better allocate money by giving the laws on the books a good hard review, both state and federal. Which are truly crimes? Money shouldn't wasted on enforcing laws that are simply the opinion of whatever lawmaker was in power at the time.

Malum in se vs. Malum prohibitum. But I doubt very many people understand the difference.

 

[Ματθιας]

There's enough money. There's money for everything else. It's just that our system has become corrupted, like third world, banana republic corrupt. No one wants to fix anything and it's not going to be fixed, when it means killing the golden egg laying goose.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

When you have a country with the funding for the justice system so finely subdivided, every outlay of every dollar becomes critical. This leads to DAs not wanting to go to trial because of the cost. I don't call that justice, but neither is the practice of blanket plea bargaining.


If our country really wants a justice system that charges for the crimes committed and follows through, it must find the money to make it work.

I hear you. Problem is there are only two options. Go tp Trial or plea guilty. The defendant is NOT gonna plea guilty unless there is a strong incentive to do so. With the available personel (by that I mean ALL players in the criminal justice system-court clerks/court reporters- police-DA's and their staff-defense lawyers and their staff-etc) we have in my district-there is not enough time in the day/week/month/year tp try all cases brought to bill of information/indictment. And then after trial if found guilty the personel needed to supervise punishment be it jailers or probation officers.
Tell me, how in the world does England do it??? Or for that matter do you have any suggestions???
Me, I'd much rather spend available money on the health, education and highway systems-but there may very well be someone out there that has a new look on how to solve the problem that does not do violence to the laws of humanity

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

There's enough money. There's money for everything else. It's just that our system has become corrupted, like third world, banana republic corrupt. No one wants to fix anything and it's not going to be fixed, when it means killing the golden egg laying goose.

Please elaborate-specifically "in what way has the system become "corrupt" Please give specifics-I'd like to hear your opinion. As far as killing the golden egg laying goose, exactly what do you mean by this? Again, I'm not trying to be snarky-I'd like to know. When one is so close to/working with the problem, one sometimes becomes blind to common sense solutions that are obvious to people observing from the outside

 

[pharmer]

There's enough money.

No there ain't. We have given away so much stuff with promises to give away more. $26 TRILLION divided among 150 million working or "otherwise productive" folks puts me in debt for around $175K. I don't know where I'll get that but what the heck, I'm not worrying about paying it back any more than one of Caje's clients is rushing to make restitution. Joe

 

[Ματθιας]

Please elaborate-specifically "in what way has the system become "corrupt" Please give specifics-I'd like to hear your opinion. As far as killing the golden egg laying goose, exactly what do you mean by this? Again, I'm not trying to be snarky-I'd like to know. When one is so close to/working with the problem, one sometimes becomes blind to common sense solutions that are obvious to people observing from the outside

What I mean by corrupt is that there are two systems of justice, the rich/ruling class and the rest of us. Have enough money influence, political privilege, you don't go to jail or sweetheart deals are made. Everybody is part of the same incestuous team from the judge on down - everybody knows everybody. The Epstein case, the first time he got busted, is a perfect example with the deal he got/made with the help and influence from a certain prince. He walked and was able to continue to do what he was doing.

What is our incarceration rate vs the rest of the world? There's a lot of money in the justice system from the lawyers down to the jail/prison system and all the money that goes into paying for and maintaining that system. Any reform that threatens the money flow isn't going to happen.

I don't have any answers, but I am a cynic - I don't see anything changing for the better.

 

[Ματθιας]

No there ain't. We have given away so much stuff with promises to give away more. $26 TRILLION divided among 150 million working or "otherwise productive" folks puts me in debt for around $175K. I don't know where I'll get that but what the heck, I'm not worrying about paying it back any more than one of Caje's clients is rushing to make restitution. Joe

Yes, there is. If we can print $26 Trillion to give away for everything else, we can print money to pay for whatever we want including justice reform - whatever that means.

And no we aren't going to pay it back. I wouldn't worry. We are a debtor nation and have been for decades.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Understandable frustration. Enjoy your upcoming semi-retirement, and maybe we'll see a spot for you on the SCOTUS.

Sent from my SM-T510 using Tapatalk

 

[JJEH]

The defendant is NOT gonna plea guilty unless there is a strong incentive to do so.

The incentive is that a plea deal usually holds less prison time that what they could face if they would be convicted by a jury. Also, 9x out of 10 the sentences (if they have more than 1 charge) will run concurrent as opposed to consecutive if going to trial and getting convicted by 12 people. This is how the DA in OK where I was working operated.

The def has a right to a fair trial, so if they are innocent or if the state didn't do its job then by all means, go to trial.

No rights should be violated because the country is running out of money.

 

[beaverislander]

I will continue to practice but will cherry pick cases and take only what I want to take. I suspect my stress level will go down greatly.

Congratulations on getting off the treadmill. I'm sure you'll have more time for the important stuff, you know.... drinkin, fishin & shootin.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Congratulations and good luck on your future practice.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

Caj; I understand completley. Burn out involves all occupations. My son just pulled the plug @ age 53. I did the same many years back @ age 57. Enjoy your early retirement & have fun.

 

[johngalt]

Ending this stupid war on drugs would go a long way toward making more resources available for real crimes.

 

[LVSteve]

I hear you. Problem is there are only two options. Go tp Trial or plea guilty. The defendant is NOT gonna plea guilty unless there is a strong incentive to do so. With the available personel (by that I mean ALL players in the criminal justice system-court clerks/court reporters- police-DA's and their staff-defense lawyers and their staff-etc) we have in my district-there is not enough time in the day/week/month/year tp try all cases brought to bill of information/indictment. And then after trial if found guilty the personel needed to supervise punishment be it jailers or probation officers.
Tell me, how in the world does England do it??? Or for that matter do you have any suggestions???
Me, I'd much rather spend available money on the health, education and highway systems-but there may very well be someone out there that has a new look on how to solve the problem that does not do violence to the laws of humanity

In the UK, those who plead guilty tend to get a lighter sentence than those who fight to the end. That's probably because rehabilitation makes up a greater part of the justice process than it does here. Pleading guilty is taken as a sign that you are taking responsibility for your actions.

Another thing in the UK is telling the court of other crimes so that they may "be taken into consideration". Again, fessing up when given the chance in court is seen as the first step to rehabilitation.

The perp is encouraged to confess because of what can happen if they don't. Let's say a perp is convicted of an armed robbery, but says nothing about other similar crimes. If he/she doesn't 'fess up at trial and the crimes are discovered later, then the prosecutors can come after them and any sentence will be consecutive to the one they are already serving. Big factor here is that consecutive sentences are rarely (read almost never) imposed in British courts. I was told many years ago that is due to an odd feature of old English law whereby if you are convicted of a bunch of crimes and sentenced to consecutive terms, if the first listed crime goes away at appeal, the whole sentence gets quashed. No, I don't get it either, but I've never studied English law and always did my best to avoid the need.

Of course, this works in the UK because the justice system has different balance of punishment to rehab than we have in most states in the US. Wanna lay the odds of getting the US balance changed any day soon, even if it means a more effective and cheaper justice system?

 

[Wyo]

Congratulations! I retired 3+ years ago - 21 years on the bench after 19 in a civil trial practice was enough. Best move I ever made and my timing was exquisite. My successor is facing all the same issues you are seeing there. I still mediate some civil cases as my way of cherry picking what I like and staying in the game. You will love being able to make your own choices and, trust me, your stress levels WILL go down!