Universal Background Checks?

[Puller]

Background checks = guilty until proven innocent by a faceless government bureaucrat.

I'm a hard NO.

 

[SAFireman]

Free men do not require permission from the govt to exercise their rights.

 

[gregintenn]

"Shall not be infringed" is not a difficult concept.

 

[double-dipper]

I'm probably going to get blasted on this but, yes if after passing a Universal Background Check the Fed's would issue a license that would allow one to buy, sell and carry in all 50 states. Why not? I got it states rights but, some states don't care about gun rights.

 

[redlevel]

DO NOT buy into the rhetoric. Support the NRA and protect your rights.

Now is a good time for me to say "thank you" to the mods and ownership of smith-wessonforum.com
for continuing to be staunch supporters and defenders of NRA.

 

[Bill Bates]

I don't think a Federal law requiring "Universal Background Checks" would pass a legal challenge.

My understanding (which sure could be wrong) is that the GCA 68 and current background check laws are a creature of the Interstate Commerce Clause of the Constitution.

If I sell or transfer a firearm to a neighbor there is no interstate commerce taking place. I think it could be argued that those transfers are beyond the scope, under the Commerce Clause, of the federal government and only an individual state issue.

With that said I'm completely against "universal background checks". One they infringe and two, they are almost completely unenforceable. Certainly there is no common sense reason for enacting such a law.

 

[TX-Dennis]

"Universal background checks" is a stupid and useless idea. It would only apply to law abiding citizens. Criminals steal their guns or buy them on the street from other criminals. They don't generally buy them at gun shops, gun shows or from law abiding individuals. It's all about politicians doing what they do best - fooling the public into thinking they are doing something to solve a problem when they know it's really not going to help at all.

Secondarily, it's about extending governmental control over your life - but I'm treading dangerously close to political discussion with that one, so I will quit while I'm ahead (I hope).

 

[Muss Muggins]

If I sell or transfer a firearm to a neighbor there is no interstate commerce taking place. I think it could be argued that those transfers are beyond the scope, under the Commerce Clause, of the federal government and only an individual state issue.

Yeah, that's where most people get tripped up. What they fail to understand is that the firearm itself has traveled in interstate commerce . . .

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Yeah, that's where most people get tripped up. What they fail to understand is that the firearm itself has traveled in interstate commerce . . .

One would think....however I have seen some insane stretches of the commerce clause if it affects in any way interstate commerce. So be careful since one can make a argument that just about everything in some way affects interstate commerce.
And speaking for myself, I have neither the time, inclination nor the money to afford to be a test case.

 

[mike from st pete]

"The survey of 547 adults found that 56 percent say they are dissatisfied with U.S. gun laws and policies, compared to 42 percent who say they are satisfied with gun laws."

Majority dissatisfied with US gun laws, policies: poll

What a pathetic poll.
56% of 547 polled said they are NOT satisfied with the current laws on gun owners. Wording the questions are so important to the poll. Properly worded question can almost assure the answer the poll takers want.
I am dissatisfied with US gun laws, because these laws prevent the law abiding from obtaining the needed tools for self defense.
Meanwhile no law stops criminals from getting what they want. Who really thinks Cleetus who stole a gun is going to background check Bubba when Bubba wants to buy that gun? No laws stop black market commerce

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Why not UBCs for alcohol and MJ sales. Tie it into the driver's license. A DUI/DWI-no sale.
There was a case here in NJ, a man's ex kept after him to increase the child support-which he was under no legal obligation to do.He refused, she reported him as delinquent. That caused him problems, he was able to resolve them but it took awhile. Then there's the Red Flag laws.
I think gun owners should be subject to the same rigorous background checks as parents.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I think we agree. The most extreme stretch I've been involved with surrounded a Hispanic family who was assaulted and had their car vandalized by three taters at a state park campground. In order to create a federal nexus for a criminal civil rights violation, one element of the indictment in support of the nexus stated that the toilet paper supplied by the state at the luxury outhouse at the campground although manufactured in Missouri, had traveled to the distribution center in Cincinnati, OH before arriving in the park . . .

One would think....however I have seen some insane stretches of the commerce clause if it affects in any way interstate commerce. So be careful since one can make a argument that just about everything in some way affects interstate commerce.
And speaking for myself, I have neither the time, inclination nor the money to afford to be a test case.

 

[500SNW]

Even without reading each and every single post in the thread, I'm certain that others have pointed out that the only way "Universal background checks" will ever work (theoretically) is in tandem with a gun registration program. You can't have UBC's without a registry to track the guns being bought and sold. The very concept of a "universal" background check is nullified if two citizens engage in a transaction with an unregistered and untraceable firearm. And lastly I think that red flag laws and UBC's cannot coexist without one another....which also leads to the possibility of lists of Citizens owning firearms being made accessible to the general public. The idea being that your neighbor would be more inclined to red flag you if they knew for certain that you owned firearms. We've been down that road before when lists of the names and addresses of Citizens with concealed carry licenses were declared public record and published by local newspapers etc. An employer considering hiring you normally does a background check...so now whether you own a firearm or not would be made available to them. Slippery slope

 

[pharmer]

........ You can't have UBC's without a registry to track the guns being bought and sold. The very concept of a "universal" background check is nullified if two citizens engage in a transaction with an unregistered and untraceable firearm.......

Florida has had "FFL background checks" since 1991. Supposedly they get the info particulars on a buyer, "Handgun or long gun", enter it into the FDLE system and if no !!!!, you get an approval # to write on the 4473. Info is supposed to be purged after 30 or 90 days. In 30 years it has has zero effect on crime but has created inconvenience many times. If'n every transaction had to use it, it would implode. Joe

 

[desi2358]

Totally unacceptable..... As several people have pointed out "universal background checks" require a registration system to function at all. Otherwise there is no way to determine if a transfer even took place. Registration systems have been used to force people to surrender or otherwise dispose of guns that were later banned in at least two states that I am aware of (New York and California with "assault weapons")...... National gun registration has been a pet project of many anti-gun people for years as a way to identify who has guns and eventually get rid of those guns. A "universal background check" is a starting point to that goal. The simple fact that criminals will be unaffected by such a law will then be used as an argument for further restrictions on gun ownership.

 

[500SNW]

The simple fact that criminals will be unaffected by such a law will then be used as an argument for further restrictions on gun ownership.

I often wonder if the people proposing these new laws ever consider that it is easier and cheaper to manufacture, buy, sell and consume illegal street drugs...than it presently is to buy a firearm. No licenses, fees or paperwork associated with any of that...just cash or some other form of payment. But buying and possessing a firearm...which is a Constitutionally protected Right...should require licensing, fees, applications, qualifications (training, background checks, psychological screenings) and even insurance? I would say LOL...but it ain't funny any more

 

[GypsmJim]

"Universal background checks" would require massive Gov't spending, virtually kill gun shows and make friend/family transfers difficult. Laws like this punish law abiding citizens and have no effect on criminals/crazies. Those with bad intent buy their guns on the black market or steal them. We probably have close to a billion firearms in this country. Do you really think it's wise to label countless owners criminals by statute?

The inevitable federal registration makes it easier to chip away at entire classes of firearms, one at at a time. If you think your muzzle loaders will always be safe, you're living in a dreamworld.

Flat out NO.

Universal Background checks have been required in NY for many years now. Family member transfers are exempt. The gun shows are going ahead just fine without a blip. Every show has an FFL table with a big yellow sign in the air. If you meet a guy in the parking lot and want to trade guns, the FFL will do the nics. Most dealers are good guys and don't abuse the system with high nics prices.

I have been a gun owner for 60 years. The UBC law has not affected me in any way. I would never sell to anyone unknown to me anyway, so the new law for me is a PTA kinda thing.

I'm not saying I agree with the law, I'm just presenting the facts Ma'am.

 

[500SNW]

Universal Background checks have been required in NY for many years now. Family member transfers are exempt. The gun shows are going ahead just fine without a blip. Every show has an FFL table with a big yellow sign in the air. If you meet a guy in the parking lot and want to trade guns, the FFL will do the nics. Most dealers are good guys and don't abuse the system with high nics prices. I have been a gun owner for 60 years. The UBC law has not affected me in any way. I would never sell to anyone unknown to me anyway, so the new law for me is a PTA kinda thing. I'm not saying I agree with the law, I'm just presenting the facts Ma'am.

Does New York have actual gun registration ie. where you must furnish the State Police with the make model and serial number of your firearms? IIRC, that was how it worked.

EDIT: Googled my own question. Handguns have to be reg'd. after purchasing a permit. But not long guns. Under UBC I'm afraid everything would eventually have to be registered. How else are they going to track the hundreds of millions of firearms already in circulation?

 

[Absalom]

As I've said above, I'm opposed to UBC. But those of you going off the rails talking about national gun registration are making an unwarranted assumption.

The UBC discussion is usually about expanding the Brady check already in place to be done by FFL's to all gun transactions, including between private parties FTF.

This background check does not require gun registration, and has not led to such. That's because it is a background check on the buyer's eligibility to buy a firearm, not any specific gun. It checks criminal history, restraining orders, warrants, etc.

Even if, as the law in Oregon requires, the gun has to be run through the NCIC stolen-gun database, that does not require registration, although the system could indeed be set up to capture those data. And if you're paranoia-prone, you may think that's already happening. But currently, and only in those few states which require that, the state police or whichever agency accesses NCIC is the only one who has the gun data, a far cry from national registration.

 

[500SNW]

As I've said above, I'm opposed to UBC. But those of you going off the rails talking about national gun registration are making an unwarranted assumption.
The UBC discussion is usually about expanding the Brady check already in place to be done by FFL's to all gun transactions, including between private parties FTF.

So the big question is...how does one enforce compliance? As I said above there are already hundreds of millions of firearms in circulation...what is preventing anyone from selling a firearm to their friend, neighbor or even a total stranger? How would anybody even know about it?

Universal background checks lead to registration. And registration ultimately leads to confiscation. I would say that it is much better to be wrong in my "unwarranted assumptions" than to be correct in my "paranoia proneness."

 

[sigp220.45]

So the big question is...how does one enforce compliance? As I said above there are already hundreds of millions of firearms in circulation...what is preventing anyone from selling a firearm to their friend, neighbor or even a total stranger? How would anybody even know about it?

Universal background checks lead to registration. And registration ultimately leads to confiscation. I would say that it is much better to be wrong in my "unwarranted assumptions" than to be correct in my "paranoia proneness."

Colorado has UBC - all firearms sales go through a dealer. Enforcement is pretty simple - you don't know if the guy who is meeting you in a parking lot to do an off-the-books sale is a cop or not. Why take the chance?

There's no registration. The serial number of the gun isn't provided during the check. There is a 4473, the same as if you were buying from Cabelas.

Family is exempt.

Gunshows here are busier than ever.

 

[Skeet 028]

Isn't registration, at the federal level, illegal. Wasn't it in one of the laws like Firearm Owners Protection Act or something?

The way the GCA works is seriously lawed anyway..and violates the Letter of the law completely. The government is not allowed according to the law to keep registration records of firearms purchases. So they say they have no universal registration....but if a FFL goes out of business he/she/they have to submit all pertinent records to the BATF. All these records are supposedly destroyed except they have a database of every 4473 submitted to the BATF upon the FFL going out of business. Yep they destroy the paperwork but they keep photographic records of everything. The problem with UBCs is 2 fold. It will keep records of guns sold before the 68 GCA that there were no records of to begin with. Heck many cheaper guns before the act had no Serial Number. The gummit played with the idea of requiring a serial number to be assigned to each one but it just wouldn't fly. but the 4473 requires a serial or you have to put in the area on the form NSN. There was a clause in the FOPA that stopped a bit of all this stupidity. When I got my FFL I had to keep the records forever and upon my death or going out of business they had to be surrendered to the BATF. The FOPA allowed the FFL to dispose of 4473s over 20 years old(this may have since been rescinded). When the BATF ran my records once before i closed the business they asked me where the 5 years worth of records were and when I told 'em they were somewhat PO'd...but as they were enforcing the law they had to live within it too. . Remember every time you do paperwork on a firearm the database expands that much more. and especially states that so their own background checks such as Pennsylvania there is a state bureaocrat tthat are deciding your suitability to own a firearm based on possibly half truths. When the 68 GCA was passed there were a whole bunch of non violent people who were not legally allowed to buy a firearm because the law stated if you were found guilty of a crime (not just a felony) punishable(even if you got a fine for say a bar fight) by a year in jail you can't buy a gun. Heck I knbow of one fellow who got in a bar fight in 1965 and was arreested got a fine of 50 bucks ithe crimne was punishgable for up to 30 days and a 300 dillar fine)and every time he buys a gun he gets a hold on his purchase. The whole idea of a UBG check is a very slippery slope. I once did the form for a firearm in Pa buying a rifle(for a very good price) at the Cabela's in Hanover Pa. I got a hold for some odd reason... I men my name is not one you see very often. So I went home...with out buying the rifle. I did find a way to get ahold of the background check people in Pa and asked why I got put on a hold. They of course would not tell me but I told the lady I was talking to that heck I had a Pa explosives permit as well as an explosives transport license. She told me that was impossible.. I said "REALLY?" I then told her I had a Pa carry license she said impossible again. I gave her the imformation on all that and when she checked it all it seems there was no reason to put a hold on me any longer and she told me on the phone that she was allowing the purchase to go through. I of course told her since it was 4 hours away to heck with it. I went a little further up the line with a complaint the bureauocrats just did a nice little CYA and it all went away. BTW all who think the UBC is a good idea tyo cover their Azz are only fooling them selve's. If a crime is commited with the firearm you'll probably end up in court anyway...maybe less problems but still not necessary. I just keep a record of all the guns I have had an d when I dispose of it and just put a little not on the page for that gun as disposed of at such ans such a date place. Usually with the buyers namebut buyers here in Wyoming are not very trusting of all that record keeping!

 

[GypsmJim]

Does New York have actual gun registration ie. where you must furnish the State Police with the make model and serial number of your firearms? IIRC, that was how it worked.

EDIT: Googled my own question. Handguns have to be reg'd. after purchasing a permit. But not long guns. Under UBC I'm afraid everything would eventually have to be registered. How else are they going to track the hundreds of millions of firearms already in circulation?

The New York State Sullivan Act requiring pistol permits was enacted in 1911. All us law-abiding New Yorkers have been carrying ever since....LOL. There is no limit and no waiting period. However, the applicant must take a safety course.

Its not a difficult procedure, and the only ones that are turned down are the ones that should't have one in the first place.

OTOH, drug dealers, felons and gang members are exempt from needing a permit.

 

[Sistema1927]

The only way that you can enforce UBC is with registration.

NM enacted UBC a couple of years ago, and I am guessing that compliance is very low, especially outside of the larger cities like Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and Las Cruces. Unless you were caught up in some sort of a sting, how would anyone know that you didn't comply?

Big no to UBC, as well as other useless infringements that do nothing useful and only make life a nightmare for gun owners.

 

[robertrwalsh]

We have had this in the Peoples Republic of California for many years for hand guns and a few years for long guns. It is a modest pain in the butt. That being said it does let the G know where more and more guns are, and how many you personally have (assuming they want to bother to check). I am not paranoid (I don't think) but the farther along life's road I go I find I am comfortable with having as little to do with Big Brother as possible.

 

[biku324]

The only way that you can enforce UBC is with registration.

NM enacted UBC a couple of years ago, and I am guessing that compliance is very low, especially outside of the larger cities like Albuquerque, Santa Fe, and Las Cruces. Unless you were caught up in some sort of a sting, how would anyone know that you didn't comply?
.

Most laws in NM are statements rather than strictly-enforced laws as there are not enough police, courts, nor is there corrections capacity to deal with a sudden upsurge in felonies.

I haven't sold a firearm F2F in a decade or two just because I've lived too close to the border and don't want to have to explain why my gun xxx was used in a drug-related homicide, either here or in Mexico. UBC doesn't concern me at all.

If I was suddenly placed in charge of locating/confiscating firearms in this country I'd simply use forums such as this one and ID owners and locations by IP address and/mobile data IMEI.

 

[LVSteve]

UBCs are an onerous imposition on private sales, most of all in rural communities. If you live in one of the far flung counties of NV, CO or WY, how far would you and a buyer have to travel to get to an FFL or a sheriff's office, assuming the latter would even do the check.

 

[2152hq]

Does New York have actual gun registration ie. where you must furnish the State Police with the make model and serial number of your firearms? IIRC, that was how it worked.

EDIT: Googled my own question. Handguns have to be reg'd. after purchasing a permit. But not long guns. Under UBC I'm afraid everything would eventually have to be registered. How else are they going to track the hundreds of millions of firearms already in circulation?

You 'apply' for a Pistol Permit in NYS. This is not a 'Shall Issue' State. You can be denied a NYS P/P simply because the issuing body in your County does not deem it necessary that you have or need a P/P.

Many down state residents are refused a NYS P/P simply on the grounds that they do not need one. That's the end of it. The Judge said so.
In some Counties, you may already have a NYSP/P and you want to purchase another handgun. You cannot just do that w/o 'adding' the handgun to your permit. Adding it to your permit in many countys may be restricted by the County Judge or other Issuing magistrate. He/She may feel you do not 'need' another .22 or .38 or what ever because you already have one on your permit. You may have 5 handguns (or what ever#) on your permit now and the Judge may feel that is the total number of pistols they feel you should be allowed to have.
Sell one before you can add another.

The NYS P/P records are held by the NYSP. The actual issuance of the permit and the control over them is done by each individual County. Local Judges have the control. Most are very accomodating and things run very smooth. Some are not.
You may have had your P/P for 40 yrs or more and it's been unrestricted. You can carry concealed, in a veh, everything.
(and I've seen this happen...) A person goes in to the County Clerks office to 'add' another pistol to the permit. Theclerk says that their permit needs to be upgraded with amore recent photo or for someother reason (tatered, worn, ect.) The clerks takes the permit itself and tells the owner the permit will be updated and the new gun added and all be mailed back to them. (with the purchase card that they need to go give to the Dealer to get their new gun)
When the updated P/P comes back all new and crisp,,it now has Restrictions stamped on it such as 'Not for Concealed Carry" or For Hunting or Target Shooting Only' things of that nature.
All because the updated P/P had to before a Judge for a signiture before going back to the holder and at that time the Judge felt that the restrictions were the way to go.

When the SAFE act was passed, ASW were banned in NYS except for L/E. and 01FFL could carry them in stock for sales to L/E only.
IF you had an ASW at the time the Act went into effect you could Register that weapon with the NYSP (90days to do so IIRC). You could then keep your otherwise banned ASW.
If you didn't register it, you had to sell it to an FFL, or sell it OOS.
It was contraband in the State after 90 days.

If you did register it. you could of course keep it. BUT only you could have it. You could never transfer it to another person in NYS (except sell it to an FFL). When you die it could not be willed to anyone. The State gets it.
Registration & confiscation in slo-mo.

BGC at gunshows in NY started when BGC started. 1998 IIRC.
But all sales at gunshows in NYS were required to go thru an FFL Dealer as far back as 1991 or 92 (under Gov Patacki (R).
There was no Brady check then, but all sales at G/Shows would get a 4473 done. Even sale that was talked about betw 2 people at a show but never completed. Then at any time after the show and at any location the sale was made,,that transfer was supposed to go through and FFL as well.

Hardly anyone bothered with the FTF transfer/FFL thing. In fact many didn't even realize it was the NYS law.
Then when Spitzer became AG of NYS (99), he started having his agents trolling gunshows and snagging & arresting non FFL paperwork Face to Face sales. That turned things around quickly.
Nics checks where new (on line in 98) but not every one was complying.
That quickly changed, Signage quickly went up stating a 4473/NICS was needed on all sales and obey all the laws, ect.

People have kind of gotten used to it now, But attendance at the shows pre covid was deffinetly down from before UBGchecks became law.
Checking in your own personal firearm at the door, tagging it with persl info (name, address, DL, gun info) bothers a lot of people.
That info is there plain to see for anybody walking around.When you leave a lot of the shows, they again check the gun and the tag and sometimes you and your DL to see if they match and then keep the tag with your info on it.
Feel good about handing over that info to Bubba the Security guy,,?

It has changed a lot of things. I guess you would have had to see the shows and shops when these laws weren't so restrictive to compare it to what they are now.
As far as an impact on crime,,I don't see any effect on lowering it. No body gets arrested and held for doing much of anything any more. It's always someone elses fault.

A good friend had one of his pistols stolen from his locked home.
He made a Police report for the Burglary, crim misc and larceny. The gun was legally registered.
He gets a letter from the County Court to surrender his NYS P/P, and ALL his firearms (long guns included) to the Sheriffs Dept. and await a Court hearing on P/P revocation.
Improper storage of a firearm.
It took a lawyer, court time and no small amt of money to get the Judge to 'allow' the 30yr Navy vet to retain his P/P and recover his firearms. But not without a finger wagging about gun safety, blah, blah.
On every NYS P/P it says: 'Revocable at any time for any Reason'

The person that gets a deny on a NICS just walks away from the attempted buy and what?,,,,trys it again?


What?,,There's already a law against it!!
Well then,,make it Double Secret Illegal..

 

[GypsmJim]

You 'apply' for a Pistol Permit in NYS. This is not a 'Shall Issue' State. You can be denied a NYS P/P simply because the issuing body in your County does not deem it necessary that you have or need a P/P.

Many down state residents are refused a NYS P/P simply on the grounds that they do not need one. That's the end of it. The Judge said so.
In some Counties, you may already have a NYSP/P and you want to purchase another handgun. You cannot just do that w/o 'adding' the handgun to your permit. Adding it to your permit in many countys may be restricted by the County Judge or other Issuing magistrate. He/She may feel you do not 'need' another .22 or .38 or what ever because you already have one on your permit. You may have 5 handguns (or what ever#) on your permit now and the Judge may feel that is the total number of pistols they feel you should be allowed to have.
Sell one before you can add another.

The NYS P/P records are held by the NYSP. The actual issuance of the permit and the control over them is done by each individual County. Local Judges have the control. Most are very accomodating and things run very smooth. Some are not.
You may have had your P/P for 40 yrs or more and it's been unrestricted. You can carry concealed, in a veh, everything.
(and I've seen this happen...) A person goes in to the County Clerks office to 'add' another pistol to the permit. Theclerk says that their permit needs to be upgraded with amore recent photo or for someother reason (tatered, worn, ect.) The clerks takes the permit itself and tells the owner the permit will be updated and the new gun added and all be mailed back to them. (with the purchase card that they need to go give to the Dealer to get their new gun)
When the updated P/P comes back all new and crisp,,it now has Restrictions stamped on it such as 'Not for Concealed Carry" or For Hunting or Target Shooting Only' things of that nature.
All because the updated P/P had to before a Judge for a signiture before going back to the holder and at that time the Judge felt that the restrictions were the way to go.

When the SAFE act was passed, ASW were banned in NYS except for L/E. and 01FFL could carry them in stock for sales to L/E only.
IF you had an ASW at the time the Act went into effect you could Register that weapon with the NYSP (90days to do so IIRC). You could then keep your otherwise banned ASW.
If you didn't register it, you had to sell it to an FFL, or sell it OOS.
It was contraband in the State after 90 days.

If you did register it. you could of course keep it. BUT only you could have it. You could never transfer it to another person in NYS (except sell it to an FFL). When you die it could not be willed to anyone. The State gets it.
Registration & confiscation in slo-mo.

BGC at gunshows in NY started when BGC started. 1998 IIRC.
But all sales at gunshows in NYS were required to go thru an FFL Dealer as far back as 1991 or 92 (under Gov Patacki (R).
There was no Brady check then, but all sales at G/Shows would get a 4473 done. Even sale that was talked about betw 2 people at a show but never completed. Then at any time after the show and at any location the sale was made,,that transfer was supposed to go through and FFL as well.

Hardly anyone bothered with the FTF transfer/FFL thing. In fact many didn't even realize it was the NYS law.
Then when Spitzer became AG of NYS (99), he started having his agents trolling gunshows and snagging & arresting non FFL paperwork Face to Face sales. That turned things around quickly.
Nics checks where new (on line in 98) but not every one was complying.
That quickly changed, Signage quickly went up stating a 4473/NICS was needed on all sales and obey all the laws, ect.

People have kind of gotten used to it now, But attendance at the shows pre covid was deffinetly down from before UBGchecks became law.
Checking in your own personal firearm at the door, tagging it with persl info (name, address, DL, gun info) bothers a lot of people.
That info is there plain to see for anybody walking around.When you leave a lot of the shows, they again check the gun and the tag and sometimes you and your DL to see if they match and then keep the tag with your info on it.
Feel good about handing over that info to Bubba the Security guy,,?

It has changed a lot of things. I guess you would have had to see the shows and shops when these laws weren't so restrictive to compare it to what they are now.
As far as an impact on crime,,I don't see any effect on lowering it. No body gets arrested and held for doing much of anything any more. It's always someone elses fault.

A good friend had one of his pistols stolen from his locked home.
He made a Police report for the Burglary, crim misc and larceny. The gun was legally registered.
He gets a letter from the County Court to surrender his NYS P/P, and ALL his firearms (long guns included) to the Sheriffs Dept. and await a Court hearing on P/P revocation.
Improper storage of a firearm.
It took a lawyer, court time and no small amt of money to get the Judge to 'allow' the 30yr Navy vet to retain his P/P and recover his firearms. But not without a finger wagging about gun safety, blah, blah.
On every NYS P/P it says: 'Revocable at any time for any Reason'

The person that gets a deny on a NICS just walks away from the attempted buy and what?,,,,trys it again?


What?,,There's already a law against it!!
Well then,,make it Double Secret Illegal..

Everyone in my immediate family has a permit. My Dad had one before me. Even my schoolteacher wife has one. It requires some paperwork, but its not insurmountable.

Yes, there are some judges in some counties that are bad to work with. It all comes down to the old "law-abiding citizen" idea. It also comes down to your attitude when you meet with the county administrator that accepts your permit.

It usually takes months to complete the process. One of the requirements is that a police officer do some of the investigating. When my 21 year old son was in the process he was at the University taking Criminal justice, and riding with a local cop on several days a week. As it turned out that very cop was an investigator. He took it to the judge and my son had his permit in 3 days!!!

When my wife applied, they saw she was a teacher and she got it in 3 weeks.

The revocation statement above is simply not true.

 

[riverrat38]

If I was suddenly placed in charge of locating/confiscating firearms in this country I'd simply use forums such as this one and ID owners and locations by IP address and/mobile data IMEI.

We are not under oath on this forum. It's possible, a time or two in the past, that a poster has told a "war story", or exaggerated a bit about the guns and ammo they possess.

Well, ya see officer, I am actually an antigun person, but I get a kick out of going to the Great Ape's fine forum, and telling some whoppers! It seems to amuse some of the ladies I meet.

Best,
Rick