''unreloading'' black powder cartridge

[Qc Pistolero]

One of my friends gave me a few 45-70/500gr bullets loaded with black powder.I don't want to break his heart by not telling him I haven't shot them but there ain't no way I'm going to shoot his duplex loads in my beloved Sharps or Ruger no 1(not to mention the thorough cleaning job after).
I was about to put them in my kynetic hammer but stopped when I realised that black powder can be detonated by shock.
Is my fright justified?

 

[Nevada Ed]

Real black powder is very touchy.........

I would fire them if possible, or.........

let them soak in oil....... then water.......then solvent......
then maybe take them apart'

I don't trust BP!!

 

[Narragansett]

Are you sure they are black powder or a modern day substitute?

Real black powder can be unstable, especially with age. I would fire them

 

[Hang-Fire Hank]

ONE WAY OR ANOTHER

Qc: Your Ruger #1 has a verry strong action, but I wouldn't shoot them either. Just a habit of not firing someone else's handloads. Try putting the cartridges in a press w/just the bullet protruding up thru the top where a die is normally held. Put some strong pliers on that bullet & pull the case away. You didn't state whether the bullets are lead or jacketed. If lead, they should pull out fairly easy. Jacketed, not so much.

Not sure w/BP, a kinetic puller is a good idea.
RCBS does make an excellent press-mounted bullet puller, but pricey unless you use it regularly. Bought mine over 35 years ago & rarely use it.

Rotsa Ruck, Hank M.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I think it pretty much impossible to harm you No.1 for any type of BP reload!

I have Forrester's collet style bullet puller, the teeth just smear in the lead alloy of heavily crimped reloads. I would go with Hang Fire Hank's plyers method. Some people seat the bullet a 1/16 or 1/8 inch deeper to break the bullet free from the case first!

Ivan

 

[Bakebfr480]

That's all I shoot inmy two sharps rifles! Not a big deal to clean a single shot!!!

 

[Nick B]

That's all I shoot inmy two sharps rifles! Not a big deal to clean a single shot!!!

^^ Same here . Black powder cleans up easier than smokeless.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I think I'll go Hank's way.
I know for sure it is real black powder since my friend is a real freak about doing it the way it was then,historically speaking.
Cleaning the barrel of a gun that's been shot with BP is no chore...but the stuff has a way of getting into any conceivable place in an action and make it rust.That's what scares me.
Thanks to all who gave me their opinion and comments.

 

[Drm50]

Put 45/70 shell holder in ram, raise cartridge up through top of press. Then grab bullet firmly with pliers resting on top of press. Down stroke will pull the bullet. Bullet will be deformed, so what. Dump out powder and end of problem. Personally I wouldn't hesitate to pull in hammer.

 

[DWalt]

Real black powder is very touchy.........

I would fire them if possible, or.........

let them soak in oil....... then water.......then solvent......
then maybe take them apart'

I don't trust BP!!

BP is very insensitive to shock and friction. Where did you find information to the contrary? Try it yourself. It is extremely stable, and about the only way to set it off is by flame. Also, as long at is kept dry it will not degrade in the slightest and has an unlimited shelf life. I once used some which had been manufactured during the Civil War, it worked fine.

 

[6string]

My brother once had a full box of RCMP 45 Colt ammo, loaded with black powder. He kept some in his collection, and we shot a bunch in his S&W 25-5. That was great!
A few other rounds we took down in my Quinetics bullet puller. We wanted to weigh the components, etc. We reloaded the fired brass, balloon head stuff. We got many reloads out of it. He's probably still got it somewhere.
No problems with anything. Clean up is very easy. You just gotta do it. Now. Not tomorrow.
Disassembling the ammo was easy. Just a few light taps.

The only risk I see in your situation is shooting someone else's reloads!!

Jim

 

[Green Frog]

If your friend loaded ONLY black powder (no duplex with smokeless) in those 45-70s, It would be virtually impossible to put enough BP in that 45-70 case to damage your Ruger #1.

Clean up is a piece of cake. A few patches with a water based solvent (even soap and water) then dry with clean patches and finally oil. No problem! We deal with cleaning BP fouled guns every weekend in North-South Skirmish where BP is required, I speak from experience!

Froggie

 

[glowe]

Hank almost has the same process that I have used in the past. Only exception is that I drill through the top section of all the lead bullet first, then inserted a large wire to span the 7/8" top hole in my press. Those bullets should pull without much of a problem, since 45-70 reloads should not have much or any crimp. Since I cast my own bullets, I just throw them into the melting pot.

I agree with DWalt that I have never read or witnessed that BP is shock sensitive. I have used inertia puller to unload several boxes of 44 Ruaaisn after I sold my last one and a couple boxes of 44 American after getting rid of my 2nd Model. No explosions resulted.

Black powder is a very stable explosive, insensitive to shock or friction, but sensitive to heat and flame. Like all explosives, it supplies its own oxygen and does not rely on the atmosphere. Reference from the following study on explosives. Explosives

 

[Mad_Charlie]

BP is very insensitive to shock and friction. Where did you find information to the contrary? Try it yourself. It is extremely stable, and about the only way to set it off is by flame. Also, as long at is kept dry it will not degrade in the slightest and has an unlimited shelf life. I once used some which had been manufactured during the Civil War, it worked fine.

Compared to smokeless, it is much more stable. Even if it gets wet, all you have to do is dry it out. The subs are what is unstable. As long as the bullet is seated on the powder, you are not going to damage a No. 1 with 70gr of black. You won't damage a trapdoor either. But you will have to clean your rifle

 

[Harkrader]

Like Nevada Ed sed. Er, said.

 

[glowe]

Like Nevada Ed sed. Er, said.

Sorry, but nothing Ed sed is accurate at least from my experience. Aside from the stability issue with BP, years ago I read about soaking ammo in oil, water, solvent and after wasting a few days of soaking, the cartridges came apart looking dry and just as originally loaded. If you are good at reloading or have high quality factory ammo, with proper lead bullets and proper crimp, your ammo is totally sealed against any type of liquid.

Another experience was when some experienced reloader told me about making ammunition displays by pulling the bullets, pouring out the powder. dropping oil into the primer and re-seating the bullet. I had some cases left-over from a project I did and decided to make sure the advise for fouling the primers was correct, so placed the empty cases with oil soaked primers in a revolver just to test. 2 months after I oiled soaked the primer, they all fired . . . I finally found that you could place the punched out primers from my press and place them in a metal can with a lid and heat the bottom until all the priming compound was burnt up or they went off, ensuring the primers were totally inert.

Moral of the story is to safely test all advise given to prove for yourself what is right and what is wrong. Check advise against published research and technical references if available as well.

 

[Forrest r]

Just take them out & touch em off

 

[Charlie Foxtrott]

If you have concerns about them?

And you mentioned duplex rounds. So you would be justified. I guess that giving the rounds back to your friend and telling him the truth, that you have reservations about shooting them. I guess that this is just out of the question.

 

[glowe]

Just take them out & touch em off

Only problem with that is the display cartridges would show spent primers dent, but I like mallet!

 

[2152hq]

Place the cartridge case on a hard surface like the anvil portion of a bench vise or other smooth steel surface. Let the bottom end of the case (rim and larger case dia) hang off the side. You want to be able to do the following to the neck portion only.

Take a piece of smooth metal,,steel or brass about a foot long is good.
(Don't use a file,,that'll leave the teeth imprints in the brass case. But a smooth piece of steel or brass about the size of a file works well)

Press down on the case neck and roll the case back and forth on that smooth surface.
It'll only take a few back and forth motions and the brass case neck will be expanded because of the rolling action.

The bullet can usually be pulled right out of the case with the fingers very easily. No damage to the case unless you get a little reckless and roll the thing all over and damage the body, ect. But that'll fireform back anyway.

The bullets are unharmed too so they can be reused.
Works for jacketed and well as cast lead bullets.
The straighter the case, the easier it is to do but it works on bottle necked cases too,,just takes a little practice to get used to it.
Goes quick.