Upcoming execution in Alabama

dockmurgw said:
And here are some examples. I am not a big fan of capital punishment for the reasons you mention.
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Meh. Most of those likely did something else and weren't caught so justice would still be served.
 
DWalt said:
I always thought that the "Cruel and unusual punishment" thing was intended to prohibit medieval torture and execution practices such as stretching on the rack, drawing and quartering, pouring molten lead down your throat, roasting in the hollow iron bull, intentional starvation, burning at the stake, etc. Now it has been perverted to include any kind of life-taking method, no matter how humane. So what is kindly and usual punishment?
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You forgot impalement. An all time favorite of Vlad:eek::eek::D:D
 
TXBRYAN, I'm in no way distorting your opinion. I'm simply saying you are right. The death penalty is not a deterrent. It should not be looked at as a deterrent. It should be viewed solely as a punishment. Along with any other sentence.
 
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Narragansett said:
You forgot impalement. An all time favorite of Vlad:eek::eek::D:D
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I've always been a fan of the punishment fitting the crime. So if you beat someone to death, you get beaten to death. Stab someone, you get stabbed.

Another improvement to our system would be if the police and the DA weren't intent on railroading the first likely suspect.
 
TXBryan said:
What is it about life in prison without parole that doesn't sound like punishment? I did not discuss reform. And, life in prison without parole would tend to indicate the "monsters" will not be walking among us.

I respect your views but please don't distort mine.

Bryan
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The problem with life inprisonment without parole is that some time in the future someone can decide that parole should be made available to the prisoner "as a humane way to rehabilitation".

Back around 2003 I was in Melbourne, Victoria (Australia) when two men were sentenced for shooting and killing two police officers. The older man had a list of in express of 150 violent convictions (and no knowledge of non-violent ones was published). The judge ruled he could not be rehabilitated and sentenced I'm to life without parole. "You will die in prison" the judge told him.

The youngest killer was only 19 at the time of the shootings. He was deemed to be rehabilitatable. He was sentenced to life with a 36 year non parole period. At the time the worst killer in Kiwiland was subject to a 32 year non parole period.

We now have someone in prison in this country for "life without parole", a sentence imposed for over 50 killings and another 50 or so off attempted murder, plus a terrorism charge. He is now appealing his sentence! And he plead Guilty to all charges knowing what would happen.

Of course he is kept in a special part of our most notorious prison, separated from all except a few guards, for his own "protection".

As a side note, a distant cousin of my grandfather has the distinction of being the first man in the world to be convicted and executed for murder based only on forensic evidence. It was just over 3 months from the offence to the execution by hanging. His fingerprints were found inside a money box stolen after a postmaster was killed in his home to get his keys, and he was seen hanging around the scene of the later robbery.

There is now some official doubt as to if he was actually involved in the killing itself or if he was coerced into being a lookout and disposing of the money box, as well as his silence after his arrest. At the very least is is doubtful there would be a conviction today.
 
If I sat on a jury and had to decide between death or life without parole, and 'without' was indeed 'without', I'd lean toward the life sentence. The thought of a person spending the rest of his life in a cell not much larger than a sheet of plywood appeals to me. That would constitute punishment. Death, by whatever means, is too final, too quick and provides no long-term punishment.
 
MRB1 said:
The thought of a person spending the rest of his life in a cell not much larger than a sheet of plywood appeals to me. That would constitute punishment. Death, by whatever means, is too final, too quick and provides no long-term punishment.
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The problem there is that they don't spend their entire lives in that cell. They play basketball. They work in the shop. They can get a free education. And it only costs about $100k per year to keep him there.
 
IMHO there are Way To many lawyers and most judges used to be lawyers. Also allowing lawyers to advertise on radio, tv and whatever other media. Have lawyer friends and worked for one of the oldest firms in the US. judicial system needs to get back to Basics, hopefully that needs no explaination.
 
Yaworski said:
I've always been a fan of the punishment fitting the crime. So if you beat someone to death, you get beaten to death. Stab someone, you get stabbed.

Another improvement to our system would be if the police and the DA weren't intent on railroading the first likely suspect.
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That's fine . . . until it turns out it wasn't you who did it.
 
So far as I can tell from the internet news, midnight is approaching and the execution is still a go. However there are some ongoing appeals for a last minute stay by various groups based primarily on the premise that nitrogen hypoxia execution is untested in a human and therefore meets the definition of being cruel and unusual. Guess we will have to wait and see. An interesting Scientific American article on nitrogen hypoxia follows. Nitrogen Execution Method Touted as More 'Humane,' but Evidence Is Lacking | Scientific American
 
Appears to have gone rather smoothly. I suppose there will be more commentary to follow. Probably very little of it favorable.

I found an interesting 2020 comparative study report of an experiment using nitrogen vs. CO2 to stun young pigs done in Switzerland. A nitrogen-containing aqueous foam was used and it was a very scientific and thoroughly designed and documented experiment, as to be expected from the Swiss. The nitrogen breathing pigs all went down in less than a minute with little overt signs of distress. Much less traumatic on the pigs than using carbon dioxide-containing foam. After reading that Swiss study, it seems to me their experimental N2 foam stunning method would be very well suited for and easily adapted to performing human executions. Put the human suitably restrained into a small enclosed chamber and introduce the nitrogen foam. The purpose of using the foam is simply to displace all the air in the chamber quickly. We may have seen the last of lethal injections.
 
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Nitrogen asphyxiation is well known not to cause suffering. That is why nitrogen asphyxiation is so dangerous in confined space industrial situations. The gasping and suffocation reflex is triggered by elevated CO2 in the lungs and blood stream, not nitrogen. Nitrogen and nitrous oxide have gained following in the assisted suicide groups due to simplicity and lack of discomfort.
 
ggibson511960 said:
Nitrogen asphyxiation is well known not to cause suffering. That is why nitrogen asphyxiation is so dangerous in confined space industrial situations. The gasping and suffocation reflex is triggered by elevated CO2 in the lungs and blood stream, not nitrogen. Nitrogen and nitrous oxide have gained following in the assisted suicide groups due to simplicity and lack of discomfort.
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Interesting. I remember Dr. Jack Kevorkian was using CO. You would probably laugh yourself to death of you used nitrous oxide. I personally saw one instance of near-instant human unconsciousness due to breathing Hydrogen Sulfide. Deadly stuff if breathed in high concentrations. And you cannot smell it as it kills your sense of smell. It smells like rotten eggs in low concentrations.
 
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quikdraw67 said:
Ropes and trees worked for centuries, and are recyclable and environmentally friendly.
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Yup. The short fall arrested by the rope, and the resulting separation of the spinal column at the cervical/thoracic junction is pretty quick and painless from everything I have read and understood.
If televised, it would also be a good object lesson for other homicidal criminals as well.
 
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BC38 said:
Yup. The short fall arrested by the rope, and the resulting separation of the spinal column at the cervical/thoracic junction is pretty quick and painless from everything I have read and understood.
If televised, it would also be a good object lesson for other homicidal criminals as well.
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It used to work well in Texas. Seems like every Texas County courthouse has its own hanging tower. That was before all executions were performed at the main Texas prison instead of in the county where the crime occurred. Some of the big Texas ranches had their own hanging trees where they took care of rustlers and other miscreants themselves. No appeal process there. I used to drive by one of those hanging trees in Sutton County frequently. No one cared much about cruel and unusual punishment then. You stole a cow, you got a rope.
 
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I recall detective show, could have been Mannix, Banecek, or maybe Quincy, in which a pilot of a small plane died because someone switched filled his oxygen tank with nitrogen. In the show they said that he just would have simply passed out with no indication that anything was wrong.

In any case, the anti crowd will say that everything is cruel. The chemicals sting when they are injected. A a firing squad hurts. The chair might not kill quickly. Rope burns from a noose. So on and so on.
 
Bald1 said:
TXBRYAN, I'm in no way distorting your opinion. I'm simply saying you are right. The death penalty is not a deterrent. It should not be looked at as a deterrent. It should be viewed solely as a punishment. Along with any other sentence.
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Well it certainly deters that person from doing any more bad things. You say its a punishment, well your right on that, its the ultimate earthly punishment. Whats wrong with good old vengeance BTW, in most cases it will make the people that lost relatives and friends feel a little better.

It also protect any other person that has to be in close contact with that person. Prison guards, other staff and other prisoners are now much safer.

Of course for the death penalty to work right it should happen withing a year, not perverted out to decades the way the bleeding hearts have made it.

I speak a bit from experience I have had a few friends killed and I certainly do not waste any sympathy wondering if their killers are humanely put down. I just want the put down be done expeditiously.
 
I recall reading-but not where, but they seemed very familiar with the execution protocol in the UK and it's colonies-that besides the drop, the location of the knot/fitting for the noose is very important for, if you'll pardon the expression, a clean break.

There was also something published about the Nuremburg executions post WWII that went into some detail. IIRC, Himmler had a bad time.
 
WR Moore said:
I recall reading-but not where, but they seemed very familiar with the execution protocol in the UK and it's colonies-that besides the drop, the location of the knot/fitting for the noose is very important for, if you'll pardon the expression, a clean break.

There was also something published about the Nuremburg executions post WWII that went into some detail. IIRC, Himmler had a bad time.
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Himmler took the same out that Goring did. He offed himself!
 
I have read the comments herein about deterrence with interest.

Most people don't actually understand deterrence. There are two types of deterrence. These are general deterrence and specific deterrence.

Deterrence (both kinds) requires three components to work effectively. Those are that the punishment be: swift, severe and finally CERTAIN.

General deterrence, in the area of capital punishment, is the idea that executing a person will deter other citizens from committing such a crime.

So, given that, capital punishment does not meet the three requirements. While the death penalty is severe (can't get much more severe than death), it is NOT certain. A person probably stands a better chance of being struck by lightning than actually being executed for a murder. And it is most assuredly not swift. Even if a person is finally executed, it is many, many years before the sentence is carried out. So capital punishment is not much of a general deterrence.

Specific deterrence refers to deterring the person who commits murder and is convicted being deterred from committing future murders. In this instance capital punishment is a specific deterrence. It works even though it is not swift. IF a person is executed it is most certainly severe and it is certain. So the person convicted, sentenced to death and then executed will not commit another murder, then capital punishment is a specific deterrent to that person (and that person only).

Personally, I support capital punishment in theory, but I am against it in practice. IF a person committing murder was sure to be executed and the execution was done quickly, then perhaps it could be seen as a general deterrent. Unfortunately the way it is done in the United States it benefits no one but the defense/ appeals lawyers. Society does not benefit.

Some studies (I remember them but can't cite them) report that is is more cost effective to house a person for life in prison than to pay for all the appeals mounted to keep a person from being executed.
 
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