***UPDATE***June 2011***H.R 218 LEOSA... How's that working out for fellow retirees?

[kraigwy]

LEOSA says 10 years, but you have to have an ID card from your department. LEOSA has no control or method of forcing your department to issue an ID card.

If you have a Retired ID card and your department or state has no means or policy to qualify you, LEOSA does cover that, simply go to another state.

I retired 18 years ago from the Anchorage Police Dept. and moved to Wyoming. I live in a small town and their so called range officer leaves a bit (a lot) to be desired.

Every year I go to Oregon for a sort of family reunion. Oregon has an excellent program for out of state retirees, if you have a Retired ID card, they (Clackamas County Sheriff's Office) will qualify you for $45 (which includes ammo since you have to shoot their ammo in their indoor range). They then issue you a lamanated qualifacation card.

There have been too many places where states/cities have got bitten in violating or not honoring the LEOSA.

In my crystal ball, I see more and more states/cities getting educated and making it easier on us who carry under the LEOSA.

 

[Chuck1217]

Laws don't mean as much as they used to, do they? the current administration chooses which ones THEY will enforce (ref: immigration) and IL chooses not to enforce the recent SCOTUS decisions. What a country. Someone mentioned Maryland being cooperative with LEOS, isn;t that where they wanted a dollar per round tax? Among other anti-gun proposals? And someone else mentioned the Ret'd LEO law was unclear- as far as I can tell every state law leaves vague interpretations to the local cops-attorneys-judges. Not much doubt they do it on purpose so they can stretch their law one way or the other, depending on their mood.
Sorry for rambling, just gets under my skin sometimes.

 

[ispcapt]

That being said, as of this date, 04/26/12, the LEOSA act of 2004 , as amended in 2010, allows active & retired officers to carry a handgun withour limiting the capacity of ammunition in a pistol ,

You probably better reread LEOSA as amended. Note T 18 USC 926C(e)(1)(B) where the only mention is "includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act;"
Nothing in LEOSA addresses magazine capacity. The 2010 amendment addressed ammo type but said nothing addressing capacity. Therefore, since LEOSA doesn't exempt capacity a state can still restrict/limit on capacity.

If you have a Retired ID card and your department or state has no means or policy to qualify you, LEOSA does cover that, simply go to another state.

Again, not so. LEOSA is clear about that too. Qualification can be done either by the retirees former agency or by the state in which the retiree resides. Can't just go to another state and get qualified if you're not a resident of that state. T18 USC S926C(d)(2)(B) states "(B)a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides or by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State..."

LEOSA is pretty clearly written. It only becomes murky when people start reading into it things that aren't there and wanting it to say something it doesn't say.

 

[badge]

My former agency in Fl will qualify retiree's who come in to do so. I reside 1350 miles away so that is an impossibility. The Keystone state has now set up a system with qualified instructors in every county who will qualify you on a state mandated course. You shoot, give the card filled out by the instructor to your Sheriff and 6 clams later you have your card to carry. I have read the Federal law. No state can " opt " out, even N.J. or NYC. As long as you have your retired credentials and qualification card you are set. As for N.J. and NYC with their individual nuances in regards to hollowpoint rounds and high caps I will conform to those standards as there is no Constitution on the side of the road so I carry revolvers with lead semi wadcutters and 10 shot semi auto's.

 

[hispdvic]

LEOSA Requirements In Hawaii

In Hawaii to get your Retired Carry Permit, you have to get a hearing and eye test (you pay for it and you have to do it every 2 yrs) then go thru a 4hr classroom session and pass a written test, then the range qualification (which is good for 1 yr).
And they only let you carry the 1 gun that you qualifiy with, .38, 9mm, .40 cal, 45 acp..
Is it the same BS in other states, does Idaho qualifiy out of state retired LEO's ? I just bought a 2nd home there.

 

[Frank53]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in states like NY with a mag limit, if you are carrying a firearm made prior to the federal ban, you are grandfathered in as far as capacity goes.

 

[MaximumLawman]

I don't think the law says WHO has to qualify you. When I retire, I'm just going to take a lifetime of qualification cards and qualify myself every year.

 

[kraigwy]

I don't think the law says WHO has to qualify you. When I retire, I'm just going to take a lifetime of qualification cards and qualify myself every year.

It says you have to have a qualified firearms instructor qualify you. I kept my certification up after I retired.

Wonder how it would float if I qualified my self. I use to do it when i was on the department.

 

[ispcapt]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in states like NY with a mag limit, if you are carrying a firearm made prior to the federal ban, you are grandfathered in as far as capacity goes.

LEOSA does not address mag size.

 

[AZretired]

It says you have to have a qualified firearms instructor qualify you. I kept my certification up after I retired.

Wonder how it would float if I qualified my self. I use to do it when i was on the department.

When I was a dept. Firearms instructor we were not allowed to qualify ourselves. Did you investigate your own accidents too?

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[The Big D]

Interesting that Hawai'i apparently requires hearing/vision testing. That is NOT a LEOSA requirement...though I actually think it's not a bad idea.

LEOSA also does not restrict carriage to one (1) specific gun caliber...it restricts it to one (1) gun TYPE...revolver or semi-automatic. However, if you QUALIFY with both types, you can carry any make/caliber of each type. (e.g. Per my Maryland LEOSA quals done with a revolver, I can carry any make/model/type, etc. REVOLVER.) Formerly we could qualify with both a revolver and a semi-auto, but with the inclusion of a "night fire" requirement time constraints do not allow both revolver and semi-auto courses of fire. And, no, one may not attend separate sessions to allow for both.)

LEOSA also requires you be qualified IN THE STATE IN WHICH YOU RESIDE...or by your former employing agency.

Be safe.

Note: this thread is more than 2.5 years old. The ammo restriction has been eliminated, of course. LEOSA qualified folks can carry hollowpoints in the Garden State.

 

[AZretired]

Leosa does not restrict you to revolver or semi auto. You can carry either, you just have to qualify with both. My Az Leosa card states both.

Also you must qual in the state in which you live. You can qualify with your old department only if you still live in the same state. I do not so I must qualify to AZ standards.
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[The Big D]

AZ, edited my post above yours to clarify your first point in which you are correct.

On the other hand, one can be qualified by his/her former agency regardless of where one resides. If not by the former agency, quals MUST be in the state of current residence and per that state's standards.

Be safe.

Leosa does not restrict you to revolver or semi auto. You can carry either, you just have to qualify with both. My Az Leosa card states both.

Also you must qual in the state in which you live. You can qualify with your old department only if you still live in the same state. I do not so I must qualify to AZ standards.
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[AZretired]

NM nor my old dept. will not issue me a Leosa card because I now mive in AZ. So I must qualify by AZ standards. AZ will not accept qualification records from my old dept.

As far as I know, from my interpretation of HR218 this is the intent of the law.

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[crofoot629]

HR 218 is working just fine for me.

I have flown in and out of Hawaii twice with my Glock 26 that I qualify annually with here under HR218. And carried it concealed while on Maui. And yes on the first trip I registered it with the Maui Police Department. I chose the Glock 26 because of Hawaii and New York's 10 round Mag capacity laws.

I happen to have an Oregon DPSST range officer (Robert Stark, Retired JCSO) locally that does all HR218 Quals for free, and properly documents the Quals and issues the appropriate ID. We are in Southern Oregon, and the last time I was out at Bob's house and range, there was a retired California Police Officer attempted to qualify. The Cali copper couldn't shoot for beans, and barely new how to run his gun, but that's another story.

Perhaps this fall I'll have a chance to fly in and out of New York City, with my Glock 26, and carry concealed in the city.

Emory

 

[MaximumLawman]

It says you have to have a qualified firearms instructor qualify you. I kept my certification up after I retired.

Wonder how it would float if I qualified my self. I use to do it when i was on the department.

Qualified by whom? State Police? State regulating authority? NRA? I qualified as a firearms instructor in my state years ago. As far as I know, there is no requirement to "requalify" in my state. I'll just keep the "Firearms Instructor" card I got from MCOLES and qualify myself every year.

When I was a dept. Firearms instructor we were not allowed to qualify ourselves. Did you investigate your own accidents too?

I don't think it matters what your department rules and regs said. I think it only matters what the law says. There is no law that says you can't investigate your own accident, is there?

 

[ispcapt]

Qualified by whom? State Police? State regulating authority? NRA? I qualified as a firearms instructor in my state years ago. As far as I know, there is no requirement to "requalify" in my state. I'll just keep the "Firearms Instructor" card I got from MCOLES and qualify myself every year.

Have you read LEOSA? It is clear who is a qualified instructor.
"a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;"
Does your state still let you qualify active duty officers in your state? If not, then you aren't a qualified firearms instructor. Doesn't matter what you were "years ago".
If you are actually a quaified instructor it would seem you would actually know, not "as far as I know".

 

[MaximumLawman]

Have you read LEOSA? It is clear who is a qualified instructor.
"a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;"

I have a qualification card for "Firearms Instructor" from the Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards (MCOLES, formerly MLEOTC). There is no expiration date on it. I believe that's good enough for me. Especially since there is no law, as far as I know, in MI that specifies who is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within the state. In fact, when LEOSA was passed, there was confusion because there WAS no STATE qualification standard or standard course of fire for law enforcement officers after they were certified. Each department was left to their own devices for qualification. I'm pretty sure I'll be OK in any event.

If you are actually a quaified instructor it would seem you would actually know, not "as far as I know".

Yes, I qualified as an instructor and my qualification card has no expiration date. That was over 20 years and 3 promotions ago (and I'm still in the top few shooters on the department). Since then I did attend various other firearms related training and instructor classes but at the time of my post, I didn't feel like looking up the current MCOLES regulations on who is considered qualified to qualify. Please forgive my lapse in regulational tactics. Today's lame-*** academy qualifications requirements make the concept of police firearms qualification a moot point anyway.

Were you one of those police managers who came on the job arrogant or did you develop it after the National Academy?

I guess I really should maintain my CPL for a little extra protection in case I'm not technically qualified under LEOSA to carry in certain circumstances. I wouldn't want to be stopped after I retire by some dickhead who figured my badge and the fact that I wasn't blind or shaking uncontrollably wasn't good enough.

 

[ispcapt]

I have a qualification card for "Firearms Instructor" from the Michigan Commission on Law Enforcement Standards (MCOLES, formerly MLEOTC). There is no expiration date on it. I believe that's good enough for me.

Doesn't matter what's good enough for you. What does MCOLES say? Have you even thought of calling MCOLES? Do you need someone a bit smarter to show you how to use the phone? Guess not, that would take a bit more than basic reasoning. "as far as I know". What a response.

Especially since there is no law, as far as I know, in MI that specifies who is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within the state.

Again, there's another one of those "as far as I know" answers. "as far as I know" doesn't mean squat. What's MCOLES say? A simple phone call could answer the question. Gee, seems simple enough that even the basic department dimwit could figure that out.

In fact, when LEOSA was passed, there was confusion because there WAS no STATE qualification standard or standard course of fire for law enforcement officers after they were certified. Each department was left to their own devices for qualification. I'm pretty sure I'll be OK in any event.

Same with IL. So what? Doesn't mean squat.

Were you one of those police managers who came on the job arrogant or did you develop it after the National Academy?

What's your point? You're the one who doesn't know and is only guessing. Now how stupid is that? Act stupid and give stupid answers then expect such responses. But then I guess you can't figure out anything more than 'as far as I know'. You've shown your 'as far as I know' equates to 'I don't know squat.' Real smart guy aren't you.
I asked a simple question that could be answered by a simple response. Instead you think you've got a set big enough to play stupid games. "As far as I know". Now how stupid of an answer is that? Since you don't know I'll tell you - stupid answer.
So you got 3 promotions. So what? Every dept makes mistakes. Thanks for proving that once again. Bet your subordinates really felt good with 'as far as I know' responses. Yeah, that's a great response.

I guess I really should maintain my CPL for a little extra protection in case I'm not technically qualified under LEOSA to carry in certain circumstances. I wouldn't want to be stopped after I retire by some dickhead who figured my badge and the fact that I wasn't blind or shaking uncontrollably wasn't good enough.

Is that "as far as you know" or do you know? No need to respond since you've already shown by your answers that you don't know. If you had actually read LEOSA, or if you were smart enough to understand it, then you would not wonder if you were qualified or not and there would be none of this "technically qualified" answers.

Good grief! Makes me glad I'm retired. Too many minor brain surgeons who don't know but only 'as far as I know'.
You don't like it? Tough. Get the facts instead of spouting off BS and then trying to qualify it all with 'as far as I know'.

 

[sierra255]

Here in Oregon, all retirees qualify to the state standard course of fire not their departments for HR218. Most agencies issue their retiree's a "retired police ID card, some add a retired badge to go with it. In addition, the Department of Public Safety Standard and Training(state agency) issues a Honorably Retired ID card to all certified LEO retirees. Your department retired ID cards are the key to HR218 along with a seperate firearms qualification card. My agency (Salem PD) issues a seperate yearly 218 card..

Any certified LEO trainer can qualify a retiree with his choice of weapon as long as he shoots the state mandated course anywhere in the state of Oregon. You can qualify with a wheel gun, or semi-auto, and as long as you do this qualification once a year, your "in like flynn"...We don't restrict what gun you have to carry just as long as you qualify on the course. I carry a wheel gun, but can switch to my semi if I want.

As far as carrying concealed in Oregon by retired Oregon coppers, state law exempts us from all CCW restrictions and there is no mandatory qualificatioms that we must go through.
______________
Rodger
Retired LEO