UPDATE: Pre-WWII 44 S&W date/data

[44specialfan]

So here's a quick question for our 44 Special S&W lovers. I'm trying to date and correctly ID the model name for a 4" plated, 44 S&W with a 5 digit serial number ... 346xx, hammer and trigger are not plated, nor is the ejector star. No letter before the serial number so not a post WWII revolver.
No pictures at this point.
More details to follow (I hope) but whatever you might be able to share now would certainly be appreciated !!

Tony

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Does it look like this?
Then it’s a Hand Ejector Third Model.
Let me try again- I grabbed the wrong gun!

 

[murphydog]

It's a .44 Hand Ejector. If it has a shrouded extractor rod it is a 3rd Model, and if not a 2nd Model.

 

[22hipower]

Probably either a 2nd or 3rd model HE 44. If it has no ejector rod shroud it is a 2nd, if it does it is a 3rd. Pictures please.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[44specialfan]

Jeff ... No pictures at this point but as you can probably guess I'm a birddog on a mission. Any idea on production date? Tony

 

[Mike C2]

Ejector rod shroud or not? But would be a second model .44 hand ejector without or a 3rd model (aka Wolf & Klar) with the shrouded ejector rod probably from the early 1930's.

 

[44specialfan]

Mike C2 ... Thanks for " ... the early 1930's" input, and again it does have the shrouded ejector. Tony

 

[rct269]

The serial number says you have (at least might have) a 3rd Model (.44 Hand Ejector 3rd Model---a k a Model of 1926). One might think of this as a solution in search of a problem.

The .44 1st Model (The Triple Lock) began the series of .44 HE's. Popular lore has it it didn't sell well (at $21), so they did away with the third lock and the ejector rod shroud, which enabled a lower price ($19-----for what is now the .44 HE 2nd Model). So far so good.

Enter a Texas distributor (Wolf & Klar) who was looking for something the same only different. Continuing with popular lore, W&K's customer's (those who wore badges) were complaining about bending the (now unprotected) ejector rod when they found it necessary to maintain law and order by whacking the bad guys on the head with the barrel of their 2nd Models---those without ejector rod protection. W&K, ever mindful of the old saying "Money talks and----------------", placed an order for 3,500 such revolvers. Having thus attracted S&W's attention, they went on to get themselves an exclusive for this gun----from 1926 to 1936.

The forgoing has been presented for your enlightenment and entertainment----IF your revolver has an ejector rod housing. If it doesn't have such, then you're stuck with a plain old 2nd Model. I'd explain why two different models are in the same serial number series, but it would probably make sense, and bore you to tears.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[wheelgun610]

Maj45K, did it look like the one in the front in this pic? That's a 3rd Model in the 33500 serial range - ca. 1929-'30.

Mark

 

[22hipower]

Jeff ... No pictures at this point but as you can probably guess I'm a birddog on a mission. Any idea on production date? Tony

I have 38302, a 3rd Model which shipped to Wolf & Klar in 1931.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[44specialfan]

Gentlemen ... Great info and assistance! Thank-you both. Wheelgun610 that’s a beautiful revolver and yes, looks like yours but not near as pretty !! Very nice looking stags as well sir. So based on your info, probably/possibly produced in 1930. Wheelgun610, does yours have the “N” marking, and if so where? I’m a bit confused on when Smith started using the letter on the frame under the left (I believe) grip panel, in the barrel shroud channel, and the face of the cylinder. As always, any additional information to help with my education would be much appreciated. Tony

 

[44specialfan]

Ralph ... Very helpful information and no bored to tears on this end I assure you. Thought the moderator would have closed this thread by now after my reposting where it should have been so that’s my explanation for not having replied sooner. Thus far folks seem to feel a 1930 date is at least ballpark correct for the serial # ... do you agree? Thanks again, Tony

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Plain Jane second models look like this.

 

[44specialfan]

LOL Pilgrim ... nothing much "Plane Jane" about that revolver sir!!

 

[rct269]

Ralph ... Very helpful information and no bored to tears on this end I assure you. Thought the moderator would have closed this thread by now after my reposting where it should have been so that’s my explanation for not having replied sooner. Thus far folks seem to feel a 1930 date is at least ballpark correct for the serial # ... do you agree? Thanks again, Tony

I certainly can't disagree with any enthusiasm. The 3rd series started in 1926 at 28 and change (28358). That gun was part of the first shipment---75 guns, all 5", all nickel, shipped January 27,1927. My 3rd is 54911. Quite by happenstance, I know it was made in 1938---shipped January 28, 1941 (is a target---slow movers). Similarly, my 2nd (58669--also target) shipped May 14, 1940-----and absolutely had to have been a close-out deal (39 units, all targets), were shipped to the same distributor, at a price of $17 each. (As an aside, I have a 22/40 shipped as a freebie to a S&W friend----with the cost billed to the Advertising Department---$14.55, shipped with grip adapter attached in March, 1940. It stands to reason $14.55 is the cost to make the gun/grip adapter, and ship it. It was shipped to Maine, so the shipping wasn't much more than a quarter.) So----what's the difference between a 22/40 and a 2nd target? The 2nd is a bigger gun---takes more steel---cost difference is negligible----and you KNOW S&W didn't lose any money on the deal. They didn't make near their usual, but they clearly wanted those guns gone. All this drivel notwithstanding, a letter is the only way you're going to find out when it shipped-------and it'd be interesting to confirm it was shipped to W&K----in accord with their "exclusive".

Ralph Tremaine

 

[44specialfan]

Ralph ... Getting ready to turn in here in CO but will be happy to post additional info sometime tomorrow afternoon ... Good Lord willing and the Creek don’t rise as they say. Possibly pictures as well but won’t know ‘til late AM. I do appreciate the additional info.

Also, if you can shed any light on how, or if, S&W would have marked a revolver in this serial number range to denote a nickel finish, which I’ve been told this one is, that would be very helpful. From various forum posts I know at some point an N was stamped on the frame under the grips and sometimes on the face of the cylinder and on the inside of the barrel ejector shroud near the serial number to denote factory original nickel. As you can tell, I’m still trying to get my arms around this revolver. Tony

 

[murphydog]

Perhaps the moderators can combine the two threads on this topic, please...

The serial number points to 1930 production - but S & W tracked (tracks) the age of the gun by its sales or ship date, and they did not ship in numerical order. During the Great Depression the build and ship dates may have been months (or years) apart due to slow sales, and the same time lapse may have occurred with two guns with close serial numbers. So the letter of authenticity is the only way to be sure of a "birth date".

http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/Letter_request_form.pdf

 

[Art Doc]

Mike C2 ... Thanks for " ... the early 1930's" input, and again it does have the shrouded ejector. Tony

"Again?" I don't see where you said it a first time. If shrouded then it has to be a Model of 1926 (3rd Model 44 hand Ejector). Serial too high to be a 1st Model (Triple Lock) and the 2nd Model lacks the shroud. A 4" barrel is less common than the usually seen 5".

 

[andy52]

I have 38302, a 3rd Model which shipped to Wolf & Klar in 1931.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

I have # 38402 shipped Wolf and Klar July 31, 1931. The shipment included 40 units according to Mr. Jinks it's possible both of these shipped at the same time.

 

[murphydog]

"Again?" I don't see where you said it a first time. If shrouded then it has to be a Model of 1926 (3rd Model 44 hand Ejector). Serial too high to be a 1st Model (Triple Lock) and the 2nd Model lacks the shroud. A 4" barrel is less common than the usually seen 5".

Two different threads...the shroud was mentioned in the other post...