*Update With Photos* .45 Colt Bisley Frankengun

[Gunhohulk]

I was at a local shop today when something out of the ordinary stood out to me. They had a 7 1/2” barrel gen 1(@1906) .45 colt Bisley that had a 2nd gen barrel on it. It seems to be in ok condition. No visible rust but definately some blueing loss and the s/n on the butt and colt of the frame are pretty faint. The center pin looks to be a replacement as well It also sported some interesting grips(jigged bone, stag, ivory?) and what I think is a King rear sight with the half circle rear sight blade.

Being that I’m a S&W guy for the most part my Colt knowledge is very minimal and was going to run this by here before I create an account at the colt forum. What I’m wondering is:

A. What is the market for something like this? They are asking 1k for it which seems like a decent deal for a 1st gen Bisley but as I said earlier, I do t know colts.

B. Does anyone here have knowledge of King sights on a SAA? The rear sight has every appearance of a king but there are no visible King markings on it. The front sight is a gold/brass bead that is on a perpendicularly serrated ramp that is screwed to the barrel. Seems like the ramp was original to the gun but was transferred to the 2nd gen barrel when it was swapped as the ramps finish is much closer to the rest of the gun. Were the early King mods clearly marked or is this an indication that it may be from one of the later imposters.

C. Has anyone seen ivory grips that were carved to look like jigged bone? I looked at the bottom of the grips and they have concentric rings like I’ve seen on ivory but is this present on bone/stag as well?

I know this is all pretty tough without photos but if anyone has any input I’m all ears. I’m pretty tempted to pick this up as a cool shooter and the other features would be a bonus if they pan out I just don’t want to get fleeced if there is something about the 2nd gen barrel that kills the value.

 

[6string]

You might want to research the subject of custom Colt SAAs.
At minimum, find out about Harold Croft, his relationship with Elmer Keith, and the five iconic SAAs that were built as a result.
The impact was significant enough to have formed much of the basis of Bill Ruger’s Blackhawk revolvers.

Don’t dismiss a non-King gun as a “Frankengun”. Many excellent gunsmiths built one-of-a-kind masterpieces, often unmarked.

Here’s Keith’s #5 to stir the pot.

 

[Gunhohulk]

You might want to research the subject of custom Colt SAAs.
At minimum, find out about Harold Croft, his relationship with Elmer Keith, and the five iconic SAAs that were built as a result.
The impact was significant enough to have formed much of the basis of Bill Ruger’s Blackhawk revolvers.

Don’t dismiss a non-King gun as a “Frankengun”. Many excellent gunsmiths built one-of-a-kind masterpieces, often unmarked.

Here’s Keith’s #5 to stir the pot.

I only say Frankengun for lack of vocabulary. The shop owners seemed a little put off that someone had the nerve to “cut it up” but my eyebrow was raised with intrigue. You can tell the work was done very well, not hacked on by a bubba such as myself.

I’ll use my google fu to search custom SAA’s but are there any resources you can recommend?

 

[LittleAugieMo]

2nd generation Bisley bbl or 2nd generation SAA bbl? Either way w/ Kings sight @ that price point if lockup& everything else was GTG would ,at the least,make them.an offer. But I like earlier customized pistols.

 

[Gunhohulk]

2nd generation Bisley bbl or 2nd generation SAA bbl? Either way w/ Kings sight @ that price point if lockup& everything else was GTG would ,at the least,make them.an offer. But I like earlier customized pistols.

My guess is that it’s a 2nd gen SAA barrel but not sure. Is there a difference between the two aside from markings?

 

[Modified]

I love frankenguns, its in my name. If I happened across a well functioning bisley with King sights on it for 1k my wallet would be out so fast it would fly across the room.

As to that price for other buyers? It really depends on what is going on here.

Also, yes, Jigged Ivory is indeed a thing. Not very common, but I have one set.

 

[6string]

I only say Frankengun for lack of vocabulary. The shop owners seemed a little put off that someone had the nerve to “cut it up” but my eyebrow was raised with intrigue. You can tell the work was done very well, not hacked on by a bubba such as myself.

I’ll use my google fu to search custom SAA’s but are there any resources you can recommend?

Resources: I suspect that there will be limited resources online. Folks today care a lot more about plastic 9mms than classic Colt SAAs. Sadly, you won't find a ton of in depth stuff online for free. The printed sources go back many decades, actually almost 100 years.
Gun Digest recently published a book called "Greatest Guns of Gun Digest" or something along those lines. There's a chapter about custom SAAs.
You could read up on past writings by John Taffin.
It'll be tough to do a full crash course while a potential deal waits at your local LGS.

As you said, pictures would help!

If the mechanics check out, and it's not a total train wreck, $1K for any Colt SAA is a bargain.

 

[Buford57]

The Colt Forum is your resource. I'm confused enough about the rules here on posting links that I'll leave you to the tender mercies of Google for that. There is a dedicated section for SAAs (including Bisleys) and the knowledge there rivals this forum's expertise on Triplelocks and RMs. Also, as here, pictures are critical to an informed opinion.

 

[444 Magnum]

I'd like to see those grips. We NEED pics.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Man do we need pictures!
We usually always need pictures, but this a - CODE RED!

 

[Gunhohulk]

I'd like to see those grips. We NEED pics.

Don’t get too excited about the grips quite yet I could be very wrong about them possibly being jigged ivory. But I’m seriously thinking about running over there tomorrow and putting it in gun jail(CA sucks). I’ll be sure to keep everyone updated.

Side note: I also need to be a better forum member and polish my photo posting skills so I can make good on my promises to post better photos of the recent guns I’ve picked the other members brains about.

 

[lestert357]

My guess is that it’s a 2nd gen SAA barrel but not sure. Is there a difference between the two aside from markings?

If it’s a 2nd generation barrel then your guess is correct; there is no such thing as a 2nd generation Bisley barrel. If the barrel is marked “(Bisley Model)” then it is a 1st generation barrel.

A gun like you described has no collector value to the purest Colt collector. However it could have substantial value as a shooter based on the quality of the work. Your opinion in that regard is probably just as good, or maybe even better, than anyone else’s. However, your market for a resale will be limited to only those shooters that appreciate guns like that.

 

[C3Ranger]

Colt Bisleys were only manufactured for about 20 years, and as previously noted, there are no "2nd generation" Bisleys. That being said, a significant number of original guns have been modified over the last 100-plus years. It is unusual to find any Bisley in full working order priced at only $1,000. Grips are not a concern at that price and could be a bonus. If the serial numbers in all 3 locations match, I would buy it, and then add a Colt Archives letter to determine how it left the factory.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

I know what gun you’re talking about. I’m an hour from that gun shop. The grips are really nice sambar stags. At least $300 worth right there. As I recall, the barrel is 2nd generation with a ramp front sight added. Not as nicely done as Kings would do it. The cylinder was pre war. I’m not fond of frames modified for an adjustable sight but this one looks good. I think that store was robbed not long ago.
In 2022 I stopped there and saw a 7 1/2” 3rd Gen .357 on consignment for $1595. I passed, saw it again couple months later then called asking if it was still there. It was sold. A year later an identical model was on Calguns for $1500 and I snagged it. I asked the seller where he got it. It was from that same store! So I bought the exact gun I missed earlier.

 

[Dvus]

All Bisley barrels are marked as such. If it is not, it is a replacement. Check also the cylinder. Bisley cylinders were chamfered on the front just like the older black powder cylinders.
If it does not have this chamfer, it is a replacement. Sights are not original to the gun, and if they were King sights, they also would be marked as such. The grips sound as if they are stag, according to another post,(I just noticed the poster was Wyatt Burp, a known and respected member on the Colt Forum that knows what he's talking about) and if so these can be very valuable. Check the hammer very closely for the three noches working correctly. The first, or safety(it's not, don't rely on it as such!) notch should hold the hammer away from the frame about 1/16" to 3/32" frome the frame and shouldn't drop if the trigger is pulled with medium force. The second notch should bring it to half cock for loading with no cylinder drag and should lock like the first notch. This notch is very important because you don't want the hammer falling while you are loading the gun. The full cock notch should catch as the cylinder is locking, and the hammer shouldn't travel very much after full cock notch is engaged. Any deviation from all of this indicates worn, damaged or modified parts, and good luck finding replacements. Standard SAA parts don't fit unless it's a hand or cyl. stop.

In all, $1K might be a worthwhile investment if the mechanics check out. If a hammer or other internal component needs repair or replacement, it can cost as much or more than the gun to do it right. Bisley hammers and triggers are made of unobtainium and are priced accordingly IF you are lucky enough to find one. Many bisleys are worth more as parts rather than the whole.

 

[Gunhohulk]

I know what gun you’re talking about. I’m an hour from that gun shop. The grips are really nice sambar stags. At least $300 worth right there. As I recall, the barrel is 2nd generation with a ramp front sight added. Not as nicely done as Kings would do it. The cylinder was pre war. I’m not fond of frames modified for an adjustable sight but this one looks good. I think that store was robbed not long ago.
In 2022 I stopped there and saw a 7 1/2” 3rd Gen .357 on consignment for $1595. I passed, saw it again couple months later then called asking if it was still there. It was sold. A year later an identical model was on Calguns for $1500 and I snagged it. I asked the seller where he got it. It was from that same store! So I bought the exact gun I missed earlier.

Yes sir that is the gun I’m referring to and yes they did get broken into recently. Someone cut a hole in their wall and made off with something in the neighborhood of 50 guns. Sounds like that .357 was meant to be yours!

Where in the area are you from? I’m from Folsom myself. And if you’ve seen this gun I bet you’ve also spotted the transition Heavy Duty in another local shop I’ve been eyeing but is just priced a little too much for me make a move in so far.

 

[2152hq]

A refinished (?faint serial numbers) and rebbl'd (maybe recylindered as well) Bisley could still be well worth 1K if there isn't much else 'wrong' with it.

If you like it as-it is,,and it's a shooter as-it-is then fine.
But to put a lot of $$ into it to have it fixed it up would not be the thing to do.
If you do your own work, a project gun lke this would be a nice one. Lots of ways to go.
But having to pay your way to a shootable revolver plus make some changes and alterations to your fancy would not be wise financialy.

Restoration Shops these days charge around $350 to fix the hammer notches on the SAA/Bisley (Weld,recut/harden)
Rebuilding the Bisley trigger sear tip is $150 to 200.

You can see it gets VERY expensive to have these Colts rebuilt/restored.

If you are thinking Turnbull for the bestus work on the planet,,
they just turn around and send most SAA/Bisley work right over to Dave Lanara Restorations.
Daves prices are right up there already and with some long wait times.


..also if you haven't already,,pull the hammer back and make sure the 'King' type mods didn't include lightening the Hammer by skeletonizing it with a series of drilled holes. Usually they are out of sight with the hammer in the down position.

Bisleys are nice IMO, but some people really dislike them.
I still have 2 of them . One is a project gun. re-blued & Rebbld to 357 w/a 2nd gen bbl and a 3rd gen cyl & hand.
Gee I've only had it now for maybe 35yrs+.
Maybe I'll get that one out at take a look at it..
I think I did have the battered hammer notches redone back then as a start.
Seems like the cost then was something like $35 for the work.
'Eddie somebody' who did a lot of SAA work at the time did that for me.

 

[Gunhohulk]

Well I went for it! We settled on 1k even before the .gov got involved. She’s definately not the prettiest belle at the ball, but the stags are pretty nice and I have a pile of .45 Colt components to load. Pretty sure I’ll be getting my moneys worth and then some.

 

[Dvus]

Pictures! Or it didn't happen!
Just kidding, but not about the pictures.

 

[LittleAugieMo]

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My guess is that it’s a 2nd gen SAA barrel but not sure. Is there a difference between the two aside from markings?

Don't think so(but admit I'm no expert) all Bisley bbls were marked as such IIRC