*Updated 3/18/2016* How NOT to self-defend with a pistol

[vigil617]

A pistol-involved road rage incident on Sunday here in Eastern North Carolina has received widespread local air play due to part of it being filmed with a cellphone camera.

I will not post links to any of the news coverage, in deference to the terms of service here, but in the interest of education of all who carry, carry concealed, or are considering doing so, I invite you to search "road rage" "Newport, NC".

Please read the accompanying news articles -- choose your preferred outlet; not trying to steer you -- and based on your own state's laws and your personal experience and/or opinions about pistol-based self-defense, see what you think about what happened here.

Keep in mind that the cellphone video does not show what happened shortly afterward, when shots actually were fired into the vehicle driven by the young man who was first struck by, and then (with another young man) beat down the driver whose wife then handed him a pistol.

I am not offering any opinions on guilt or innocence here, though I do have some. Charges were filed. The advantage of this rather "striking" (no pun intended) video is that it illustrates some of the various issues involved in an escalating confrontation, caputured in real time.

Be interested in any thoughts or opinions you have, and thanks in advance to the mods for evaluating this post and the associated video from a training and educational perspective. I hope it will reinforce for all of us what we have been taught about the responsibility involved in carrying a deadly weapon, and that it will provide a good example of a situation that illustrates how NOT to do it.

 

[HPaugh]

I didn't watch the video but did read the article.I would say with all the cell phone videos that are taken it can be a good thing.We must always be aware of this fact,and seriously think before we react or respond.Deadly force should be reserved as a last option.Road rage can almost be as bad a dv charge.Be careful out there.Also don't follow people to their destination and confront them.It's usually better to blow it off especially if you are carrying.Go to the range an cap off a few instead.

 

[mc5aw]

A few years ago, Clint Smith told my Thunder Ranch class something very wise re: averting road ragers and road rage incidents ...

"I'm not going to get killed over a middle finger."

 

[NE450No2]

I saw the video, but I do not know all the details.

My personal thoughts are IF you are carrying a gun, then you cannot be the agressor in any shape form or fashion.
Clint Smith's advice is a good one.

If someone is "driving badly" it is not your job, or civic duty to take action, call it in.

IF THEY trap you, and put you in fear of serious bodily injury, or death, then take care of business, and protect yourself.

 

[Buffalohunter60]

Did not know what happened previously....but I would have called the plate in and let it go at that. Turner went agressive when he did not have to and should have avoided any trouble....espically with a wife and child with him. If they had attacked him and he could not get away and had to protect his family...then that would be different....I would say this is going to cost him and her dearly. Doesnt pay to start fights and walk away if you can.

 

[cmort666]

IF THEY trap you, and put you in fear of serious bodily injury, or death, then take care of business, and protect yourself.

Which is exactly what happened in the Tavai case in Texas.

At the time, anti-gun and anti-self-defense types were outraged that a guy trapped in traffic, and in his seatbelt would shoot a guy beating him so savagely that he suffered impaired vision. As I recall the grand jury had rather a different opinion, no billing him.

 

[Fire75]

And if the kids ran him off road he should have killed them.

 

[fdw]

It's not a good idea to follow someone to their house, or anywhere and stop, then confront them and Lord forbid punch them....

I've gotten plenty mad at other drivers but I've never been willing to stop and "fight it out"...

 

[The Big D]

Should not have a gun.

This is a classic example of one (two?) who should not have a gun.

Dude was obviously not capable of controlling himself and initiated an altercation.

The woman with him presented him with a gun. She has no brains whatsoever.

Don't know whose gun it was; if hers, she should not have given it to him. If his, it should have been on his person. (This in both instances presumes all aspects of the ownership/possession were lawful.)

Both should get some jail time. Fellow who jumped into the fray should get some, too.

Be safe.

 

[Rintimtin]

From what I can see in the video I offer my opinion. Obviously the Husband is not to bright and a hot head. The two younger guys are also hot heads but if I was followed home by a stranger and then punched Id be a little pissed off to and I couldn't fault my friends for helping me. IMO the wife feared for her dumb husbands life and brought out a pistol, and notice after she walks around the front of the explored the two younger guys bolt THREAT STOPPED FIGHT FINISHED. That should have been the end of it. But her second dumb thing was handing her husband the gun the first was turning her back on the two guys also not holding the gun properly. They are all dumb but I can understand the wife's actions and I can really understand the two guys actions. And I think we have all wanted to follow some bad driver home and punch them in the face but this is why we don't also we are not STUPID.

 

[fonejack54]

I used to live in Newport when I was in the Marine Corps. It's just a little ways from Cherry Point Air Station. I wonder if these guys had that macho marine thing going on?
When I lived there, me and two other MC sargents we're driving home from base at night and a local gas station had been robbed. We were forced to the side of the road by six cop cars and held for several hours because our car matched the description.
The fact that we were Marines didn't help persuade the officers of our innocence. Good memories of Newport.

 

[newschoololdschool]

Not going to lie, I got a little worked up over this.

My issue is that a situation like this is exactly why a lot of the anti-gun people I know hold their position. They are afraid of road rage, line rage, you name it.

This guy initiated a confrontation that could have been avoided. He would have been better off just shrugging off whatever driving issues he perceived. And he never should have been handed a gun. His wife was well within a reason attempting to stop the threat to her spouse, and that was successfully done. To hand him the gun, and to have time take shots, is shameful.

All that said, I'm glad no one got seriously hurt and this incident is staying at local news level. But I'll be keeping an eye on it.

 

[waz]

if i watched the correct video, doesn't look like the guy fired the weapon... doesn't mean he's not a dummy for chasing those guys down, though

what if they'd been carrying too? things could have gotten real ugly then!

 

[SMSgt]

A few years ago, Clint Smith told my Thunder Ranch class something very wise re: averting road ragers and road rage incidents ...

"I'm not going to get killed over a middle finger."

How about two?

 

[25elk]

As far as it staying local, you can forget it. I just saw it on Fox News about 10 minutes ago. IMHO the guy who threw the first punch is a moron and the poster child for not being able to control his emotions. This will only reinforce the arguement that if no one had guns then there would be no crimes involving them.

 

[venomballistics]

watched the vid a few times.
the guy followed them and not only initiated the altercation but also lunged at the teen driver, or rather .. just driver as age has little to do with it at this point.
if I were a juror in the case, based upon that, the valid claim of defense rests upon the teens, who appear to have used force to drive off their attacker. in fact, after they had him down, they broke off.
sorry folks... as rare as it may be ... I gotta side with the kids on this one

 

[Fire75]

watched the vid a few times.
the guy followed them and not only initiated the altercation but also lunged at the teen driver, or rather .. just driver as age has little to do with it at this point.
if I were a juror in the case, based upon that, the valid claim of defense rests upon the teens, who appear to have used force to drive off their attacker. in fact, after they had him down, they broke off.
sorry folks... as rare as it may be ... I gotta side with the kids on this one

Unless the kids did run him off road, then i say that is the first attack

 

[Poodle Soup]

If someone is attempting to run me off the road Im using the car to defend my self. If they drive off after being stupid Im calling the police and following their asses until the cops ask them a few questions.


Looked like a nice gathering of idiots no matter what.

 

[HereSinceTheLongHunters]

I get a lot of windshield time and have run into my share. One very effective ploy is to pull out your cell phone immediately and start craning your neck trying to read the person's tag (as if to the cops). If I know they see me I'll point to the phone and back at them. They typically high tail it off the next exit. Only had to really call on one group of kids that were pitching garbage at me out the back of their pickup for fun when I was on the bike. It was stupid and dangerous. Sometimes they just get two fingers back and a big grin. My life is worth more than some miserable Bozo any day. I'll gladly let the Leos do their job whenever possible.

 

[Triggernosis]

if i watched the correct video, doesn't look like the guy fired the weapon... doesn't mean he's not a dummy for chasing those guys down, though

what if they'd been carrying too? things could have gotten real ugly then!

It accidently fired when he racked the slide after she gave it to him. Then they left and came back about 10 minutes later and shot up the guy's truck. The guys were in the house at that point and didn't come back outside.
Check out some of the latest updates on the story.

That hotheaded bish got azzwhupped by 2 kids, one of which was wearing striped pajama pants. How humiliating is that.