UPDATED: Anybody know about the Model 2206 Champion (Wischo import)?

[vigil617]

A "2206 Champion" model target .22 came up for sale on GB and, out of curiosity, I started researching it. So far, I've come up with zilch. Anybody here ever heard of it?

Here's a photo I found through Google -- I did not use any of the GB pics, just to stay out of trouble -- and it appears from the photo that this is a 2206TGT model that has been outfitted with K Nill target grips and has been engraved "Model 2206 Champion" on the right hand side of the frame. As you can see, the 2206TGT designation is marked on the pistol also, in the same place as the other TGTs I've seen.



I'm intrigued because the info I saw through Google was almost all from auction sites in foreign languages, mostly German, so I wondered if this particular model was something S&W made and exported for the overseas target shooting market.

Another photo on Google shows the pistol in a presentation box with a couple of mags, leading me to think that this was an actual S&W product and not a one-off custom job that someone later had engraved as "2206 Champion."

Did a thread search here, too, but no joy there either.

Anyone?

 

[Camster]

Export model,probably for Wischo of Germany.

 

[vigil617]

I'm thinking that's right, camster, and that it's interesting there's no mention of the export version in the SCSW -- since export versions of some of the other pistols are noted there. Maybe a really limited production run, or that S&W just sent a bunch of 2206TGTs over to Wischo and the engraving and (German-made) Nill grip installation were done over there. (If so, wonder what they would have done with those nice Herretts that came on the TGTs?)

Pretty cool, too, that apparently one 2206 Champion has made it back across the pond. Though, I gather that sometimes a few export models of S&Ws are retained stateside and sold through wholesalers, or otherwise get into the US population to folks who must have a lot more clout than I ever will.

 

[murphydog]

Many S & Ws that went to German distributors were bought at military exchanges/Rod & Gun clubs and brought back by the member; this may be one of them.

 

[Slidemuzik]

Very cool. Damn shame there's no box. I'm very interested in the story on this. Great post!

 

[vigil617]

I emailed the seller today with some questions, and the gun shop that is selling the pistol responded that the Model 2206 Champion indeed had been a 2206TGT Wischo import to Germany, and that the Karl Nill stocks had been added there. It is likely that the engraving of the model name was done there as well, as "that is quite common," he said. Unfortunately, as Slidemuzik noted, there is no box and there's no paperwork, so for now the rest of the story remains to be told.

I've noticed in my research that Wischo has attached the name "Target Champion" to some of the other pistols and revolvers it has imported as well. Maybe some of you who have more knowledge of that can throw in.

 

[Camster]

In the past,we've seen photos of a Wischo 617 posted here.
Also with the script name applied,and Nill grips,along with a barrel contour unlike any offered here in the states.

 

[shoot summ]

This one caught my interest as well. I pulled the pics down and blew them up a bit.

It does look like "WISCHO" is engraved on the left side of the gun under the manufacturer info. In addition someone on RFC mentioned there should be some import marks. In a pic with the slide locked back there are what appear to be some marks on the top of the barrel assembly.

Will be interesting to see how the bidding goes...

I'd love to get a look at the internals of the gun to see if anything has been done to it. In one of the pics it appears the feed ramp, and mouth of the chamber might have been worked a little.

 

[vigil617]

This one caught my interest as well. I pulled the pics down and blew them up a bit.

It does look like "WISCHO" is engraved on the left side of the gun under the manufacturer info. In addition someone on RFC mentioned there should be some import marks. In a pic with the slide locked back there are what appear to be some marks on the top of the barrel assembly.

Will be interesting to see how the bidding goes...

I'd love to get a look at the internals of the gun to see if anything has been done to it. In one of the pics it appears the feed ramp, and mouth of the chamber might have been worked a little.

Shoot summ, I blew the pictures up too and saw what you saw on the left side of the frame, but I couldn't quite make out "Wischo," although knowing that's what it probably is, I can "see" it that way. I also looked at the bottom side of the frame, under the barrel, and there are some strange-looking markings there that I couldn't make out. I'm not familiar with proof marks but I found those interesting. One other area I looked at was on the flat that the slide rides on, and it seemed there might be a couple of marks there too.

I couldn't entice the seller into revealing the reserve, which so far hasn't been met, but I too wonder at valuation of this pistol. Karl Nill (Nill-Griffe) stocks are pricey to begin with; there's a set that looks similar (though for a Hammerli pistol, I believe) on eBay right now for $165.00. Add that to the value of a 2206TGT by itself (although I wouldn't want the Nill grips, and would prefer the Herretts that came on the pistol originally), and I think you could be looking at $900 or more. That could be wildly low, too, given that this is a customized target pistol.

Time will tell, and like you, I'm interested to see where the bidding will go. I won't be in on it myself!

 

[shoot summ]

Shoot summ, I blew the pictures up too and saw what you saw on the left side of the frame, but I couldn't quite make out "Wischo," although knowing that's what it probably is, I can "see" it that way. I also looked at the bottom side of the frame, under the barrel, and there are some strange-looking markings there that I couldn't make out. I'm not familiar with proof marks but I found those interesting. One other area I looked at was on the flat that the slide rides on, and it seemed there might be a couple of marks there too.

I couldn't entice the seller into revealing the reserve, which so far hasn't been met, but I too wonder at valuation of this pistol. Karl Nill (Nill-Griffe) stocks are pricey to begin with; there's a set that looks similar (though for a Hammerli pistol, I believe) on eBay right now for $165.00. Add that to the value of a 2206TGT by itself (although I wouldn't want the Nill grips, and would prefer the Herretts that came on the pistol originally), and I think you could be looking at $900 or more. That could be wildly low, too, given that this is a customized target pistol.

Time will tell, and like you, I'm interested to see where the bidding will go. I won't be in on it myself!

Now that you mention it I see the marks on the bottom now as well.

To me the Nill stocks are only a collector oddity, so they wouldn't be that valuable. Someone out there in GB land will bid this thing up though. Considering how rare VR's are, and what they are fetching, I suspect this thing will go high.

 

[Nesmith]

Model 41 Champion

I've recently seen a Model 41 imported (re-imported?) from Germany with "Model 41 Champion" engraved on the forward right side of the slide. German proof marks with stippled walnut grips and importer marked. It has a UBD-prefix serial number.

 

[vigil617]

I've recently seen a Model 41 imported (re-imported?) from Germany with "Model 41 Champion" engraved on the forward right side of the slide. German proof marks with stippled walnut grips and importer marked. It has a UBD-prefix serial number.

That's really interesting, Nesmith, especially because the serial number on the Model 2206 Champion has a UBD prefix also!

 

[vigil617]

Now that you mention it I see the marks on the bottom now as well.

To me the Nill stocks are only a collector oddity, so they wouldn't be that valuable. Someone out there in GB land will bid this thing up though. Considering how rare VR's are, and what they are fetching, I suspect this thing will go high.

I would love to know production numbers on the 622VRs (4.5" and 6" versions) compared to those of the 2206TGT. You're right; VRs have been fetching very good prices (I sold one myself not long ago) but for my money, I think the 2206TGT should be more valuable.

For one thing, the 2206TGT is all stainless, compared with the aluminum frame and carbon steel slide (though coated with some kind of silver coating) of the 622VRs and other 622s. The vents in the VRs are cool looking, no doubt about it, but aside from those, the TGTs are better pistols, hands down. The Millett rear sight and the Herrett grips help carry the day, for sure.

So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how high this one goes. Someone might buy it just to get a TGT, if the price is right, and then the task of finding a pair of Herretts that someone is willing to let go of begins.

 

[shoot summ]

I would love to know production numbers on the 622VRs (4.5" and 6" versions) compared to those of the 2206TGT. You're right; VRs have been fetching very good prices (I sold one myself not long ago) but for my money, I think the 2206TGT should be more valuable.

For one thing, the 2206TGT is all stainless, compared with the aluminum frame and carbon steel slide (though coated with some kind of silver coating) of the 622VRs and other 622s. The vents in the VRs are cool looking, no doubt about it, but aside from those, the TGTs are better pistols, hands down. The Millett rear sight and the Herrett grips help carry the day, for sure.

So yeah, it'll be interesting to see how high this one goes. Someone might buy it just to get a TGT, if the price is right, and then the task of finding a pair of Herretts that someone is willing to let go of begins.

I know a guy with some Herretts, but he isn't going to part with them...

BTW, I'm sure you know of the target grips from GPC, they are actually a decent grip for the price.

 

[Slidemuzik]

Shoot, I recognize the bottom two grips, but I wonder what you know about the top two. Upper left looks like the second style of factory grips I've seen on TGT's. Not sure who made them. The upper right looks like custom grips. What's the story on these and where did you find them?
Very nice.

 

[shoot summ]

Shoot, I recognize the bottom two grips, but I wonder what you know about the top two. Upper left looks like the second style of factory grips I've seen on TGT's. Not sure who made them. The upper right looks like custom grips. What's the story on these and where did you find them?
Very nice.

Top left came on a 2206 I just bought, the package indicates they are from "Eagle Grips" in Carol Stream IL. They are Rosewood. The second set I bought off of EBAY several years ago and I honestly don't have any info on them. They are absolutely gorgeous on the gun.

The Eagle grips are pretty crude on the back side. I've looked at making some woodgrips, I've started to set up the jigs to route the back side, and have a buddy with a duplicator I am trying to get some time on to play around.

Here's a pic of my 622 all dressed up with fancy grips and can...

 

[Richard McMillan]

I don't know if it helps, but I have a S&W Model 41 That was shipped to Wischo, May 1995. The gun has Belgium proofs on both the slide and barrel, and is laser engraved "Model 41 Champion" on the right side of the slide. Per the Smith factory the pistol was one of a special group of Model 41s made for Wischo and marked "Model 41 Champion".

 

[colt_saa]

Wischo is to Europe what Lew Horton is to America.

They are an extremely large Importer that gets S&W to do special and unusual runs of firearms

The Target Champion was put on at S&W, not in Germany. The grips were added in Germany because they are manufactured in Germany. No sense paying the import duties twice.

Some Wischo products stay behind and others are re-imported through various means. They are easy to tell apart. The guns sold in Germany will have German proof marks on them, the guns that never left the US will not.

As to the SCSW, it is the foremost reference of S&Ws but remember this is a work from Experts and Collectors here in the US (not the factory's work). They will not have personal knowledge of all of the items S&W has manufactured exclusively for non-US sale. Many Wischo offerings are covered in the SCSW

The SCSW would probably need to be twice as thick if every S&W that went to every country on the Planet was listed in it.

 

[Camster]

Now that you mention it I see the marks on the bottom now as well.

To me the Nill stocks are only a collector oddity, so they wouldn't be that valuable. Someone out there in GB land will bid this thing up though. Considering how rare VR's are, and what they are fetching, I suspect this thing will go high.

I'd never consider Nill grips to be a collector oddity.Grips like that,are wonderful quality,and for a 41 would set one back close to 300 with fees and shipping.However,that's part of thing-it's a great enhancement on what is more of a low end,entry class automatic-it's not a Model 41.Kinda like putting a custom stock on a Ruger 10/22 or Marlin Model 60.Owners of that eco model,wouldn't be the ones spending the loot to buy them,so in that sense,they are an oddity.

 

[shoot summ]

I'd never consider Nill grips to be a collector oddity.Grips like that,are wonderful quality,and for a 41 would set one back close to 300 with fees and shipping.However,that's part of thing-it's a great enhancement on what is more of a low end,entry class automatic-it's not a Model 41.Kinda like putting a custom stock on a Ruger 10/22 or Marlin Model 60.

For ME, it's a collectors oddity, I likely wouldn't seek them out to have on a pistol. But to be fair, I've never shot a pistol with them on it, that could likely change my perspective. Aesthetically they are not pretty at all to me.

 

[Camster]

Shoot a gun with them,and you probably will change your perspective.Superior quality,fit, and feel.They put all S&W grips to shame.
I've owned quite a few sets,and with some luck,ones with pretty wood can be found.I do have a set like those shown in the post for my 41,but frankly I just keep them as a nice accessory,as for my purpose,the factory stocks suit me.I do use their regular stocks on several revolvers.
I'd never buy them for an inexpensive gun.

 

[vigil617]

I'd never paid much attention at all to Nill-Griffe grips before noticing this 2206 for sale and starting this thread.

Aside from the special competition target grips that are on that one (and I agree, they aren't pretty, but I am sure they are beautifully functional), the more traditional style grips Nill produces for revolvers are gorgeous, fitted so closely they have to be removed in a specific way, and verrrry expensive. There have been several threads here on the Forum from folks who have owned them.

Thanks, all, for your comments and observations, and keep them coming if you have more to add. I'll keep an eye on the auction and will update this thread once it's over.

 

[shoot summ]

I'd never paid much attention at all to Nill-Griffe grips before noticing this 2206 for sale and starting this thread.

Aside from the special competition target grips that are on that one (and I agree, they aren't pretty, but I am sure they are beautifully functional), the more traditional style grips Nill produces for revolvers are gorgeous, fitted so closely they have to be removed in a specific way, and verrrry expensive. There have been several threads here on the Forum from folks who have owned them.

Thanks, all, for your comments and observations, and keep them coming if you have more to add. I'll keep an eye on the auction and will update this thread once it's over.

I actually ordered a set of Nill grips for an HK P7, now that you mention it I do remember there was a very specific way to install and remove them. They were very nice....

 

[vigil617]

I don't know if it helps, but I have a S&W Model 41 That was shipped to Wischo, May 1995. The gun has Belgium proofs on both the slide and barrel, and is laser engraved "Model 41 Champion" on the right side of the slide. Per the Smith factory the pistol was one of a special group of Model 41s made for Wischo and marked "Model 41 Champion".

Richard, now that you mention it, there is a used one of these for sale online right now for a very reasonable price (for a Model 41), and the description includes the information about Wischo importing it for competition pistol shooting and mentions the proofings, and the photos show the "Model 41 Champion" engraving on the side. It's the 5.5" barrel model, but has no magazine. It's also one of the "UBD" prefix serial numbers.

Since it's a live sale I can't post the link, but Googling "Model 41 Champion" shows how to get there, for anyone who might be interested. Another Google result was an individual's classified ad from the European Stars and Stripes from 1998 with one of these for sale (for $500!) and that could correspond with the 1995 vintage of the group that yours came from. Thanks for the info!

 

[Camster]

Perhaps not the best comparison,but when see Nill grips on a fairly modest pistol,it makes me think of the guy that puts a vinyl roof on a cheap new car.If he has the money for the roof,why not buy a better car in the first place? This little gun might have been heading toward a standard Model 41 price in it's day.

 

[Walter Rego]

I have a Model 31-1 that has WISCHO marked on the barrel flat above the extractor rod along with Belgian proofmarks on the barrel, rear cylinder face and frame. I have the original box but there are no indications there that it was an export model. I'm guessing it was purchased by a serviceman stationed in Europe and made it's way home.

 

[vigil617]

I have a Model 31-1 that has WISCHO marked on the barrel flat above the extractor rod along with Belgian proofmarks on the barrel, rear cylinder face and frame. I have the original box but there are no indications there that it was an export model. I'm guessing it was purchased by a serviceman stationed in Europe and made it's way home.

Thanks, Walter; your guess is probably right, especially if you bought the pistol here in the States. I'm assuming that if a service member bought an imported S&W while overseas, simply bringing it back home (as opposed to re-importing it for sale) would not have resulted in any additional proof marks being required.

Compare that with the Model 41 Champion now on a seller's site, which the item description clearly notes has both import marks to Wischo in Germany, and re-import marks of the seller who must have purchased it for re-sale here in America.

Thanks for the info, Walter!

 

[Slidemuzik]

Update on the 2206 Champion... reserve has been met @ 550. Now it should get interesting. Bet there's a furry of last minute bidding.

 

[shoot summ]

This 422 is on Armslist right now, think those are Nills or copies?

 

[vigil617]

If they're real, the seller is giving them away, based on the price asked for the pistol with its wood S&W grips and the "custom target grips" too.

Those grips look a little different from the ones on the 2206TGT that's on GB, but at the same time, if they're custom machine-cut grips, someone must have had some pretty sophisticated CNC machinery to make them. Maybe they used a tracing program on some real Nill grips to come up with the pattern to cut their own custom version?

I can't imagine buying and installing expensive Nill grips on a 422 but I guess stranger things have happened.... Not being a competitive shooter myself, I'm just not familiar with the measures to which competitors go to gain an edge.

Just for fun, I typed "Nill" in the search box on AL and it returned some interesting results, including some with photos of custom target grips on 22LR pistols, including Nill but also some other makers.