US Doing Better re Covid-19 than I Realized

[Onomea]

Here's an interesting chart from this morning's Washington Post:



https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...889d06-8a9f-11ea-9759-6d20ba0f2c0e_story.html

While we're performing pretty abysmally compared to Asia, compared to Europe — with the exception of Germany — we're looking great. (Our Canadian brothers are doing very well, too!)

The chart above is an interesting contrast to another one that I've posted before:



How data is presented makes such a big difference in how it impacts. (My God! The US has more cases and fatalities than any other country in the world!!" vs. "US among leading Western countries in successfully preventing Covid-19 deaths!!"

The WaPo article, linked above, is about researchers trying to understand why fatalities are so much lower in Asia compared to the West. So far, while there are theories, no one knows.

I can't think of two countries more socioeconomically and culturally dissimilar than Japan and India, yet both have very low fatalities from Covid. So far, that is....

 

[Targets Guy]

They lie is the reason. Easy peasy.

 

[Onomea]

They lie is the reason. Easy peasy.

Re easy peasy, I assume you are not saying that the reason Asia has less Covid-19 mortality than does the West is because the countries within Asia are all lying about their Covid mortality rates.

While I am not sure who "they" is in your post, I am assuming you are trying to make a point about the media.

My guess is that you are saying that the reason the US is doing better re Covid-19 than it is perceived to be doing — at least by me to date — is because the media is lying about how well the US is doing.

That's my guess as to what you mean.

The two charts, while the countries listed are not an exact match, both list the US as tenth in Covid mortalities per capita.

In so far as I know, neither chart, neither source, is "lying." But the reader does need to understand how to interpret information provided so as to avoid being misled.

That is my point. Facts, depending on how they are presented, can mislead, if not considered critically.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Re easy peasy, I assume you are not saying that the reason Asia has less Covid-19 mortality than does the West is because the countries within Asia are all lying about their Covid mortality rates.

I know little of the mentality of India's government telling the truth to the world, but I believe Post WWII Japan is a pathological truth teller. It is the PRC, I don't trust them to tell the truth about a single important thing, and maybe most unimportant things just on principle. (reading this statement, I feel awful, that I have this image. However it isn't about the 1.3+ Billion people, it is about the government!) I also don't trust WHO as a rule, but I think they actually worked this time, once a certain government said something!

Ivan

 

[M29since14]

I tend to agree with Ivan, but I also think "data" is always suspect. How extensive is the data collection? How trustworthy are the data collectors? The tabulators? How willing are those questioned to provide accurate information? How advanced is the health care system? Is it available in similar ways to all people involved, country to country, rural versus urban dwellers, etc? And perhaps most important, how much importance is attached to the data collection, treatment of victims, and number of deaths, etc., by the responsible agencies?

I don't see how the scientists can draw any logical conclusions, given all the variables, both unintentional and intentional, but to the extent that they do it to ease the suffering, I applaud them.

 

[ContinentalOp]

The WaPo article, linked above, is about researchers trying to understand why fatalities are so much lower in Asia compared to the West. So far, while there are theories, no one knows.

My understanding was that many Asian countries enacted measures much more quickly and effectively than the West. As soon as rumors of a new virus in China started circulating, before any official news, some countries banned entry to people from China, required the wearing of masks in public, and I believe enacted restrictions on public gatherings. The article I read quoted officials from one of those countries who said the memory of the 2003 SARS epidemic, which killed more people in Asia than elsewhere, was still fresh in everbody's memory, so cooperation with public health measures wasn't an issue.

I can't remember the countries specifically mentioned, but I think Singapore was one of them.

Unfortunately, I can't find the article. I thought I had bookmarked it, but I couldn't find it. If I find it later, I'll post a link.

 

[Jon651]

I also suspect that India's numbers are not truly what they appear to be on these charts. India has a ginormous population with widespread poverty. Not all deaths are reported, and not all reported deaths are investigated for cause and contributing factors. There is a possibility that the numbers in these charts from India are "confirmed" deaths due to COVID-19, but the actual (or at least the suspected) count is likely much higher by an order of magnitude.

 

[Puller]

It's just to darn bad that our government does not have the freedom to completely restrict the populace like those communist countries have. Gotta hand it to us, though, we're trying our best to compete even with that pesky outdated Constitution to contend with.

 

[Absalom]

Of the listed seven Asian countries, only two, China and Vietnam, are Communist, the others have open democratic governments with generally free press, and while there are certainly valid concerns about how individual governments are reporting cases, the overall trend shown in the graphs is so significant that it has to be considered real.

Geographic and cultural issues, like mentioned for India above, may significantly distort the ability to compare Asian to European/North American countries.

But given the dramatic differences, the other factors which the researchers are looking at per the WaPo article, issues like genetics, obesity and general health, different virus strains etc. are still worth examining.

We may learn something. Just focusing on reasons why you don't want to trust the numbers is unproductive.

 

[Whisper]

As regards lying, a friend who lives in Nigeria says the government there is doing almost no testing and almost no reporting because they don't even want to know what the real numbers are. My guess is it's the same in almost all underdeveloped countries.

 

[Onomea]

Wow. Didn't even occur to me that anyone would assume all Asian nations were lying. (Hence my somewhat tortured surmise as to who "they" were in Targets post.)

Blows my mind.

 

[woodsltc]

Just curious.....what would the US numbers look like if NYC and New York state were factored out. Seems that is where the death rates were the worst!!

Don

 

[Golphin]

NY State is half of the USA numbers and the death rate there is higher by percentage also I believe although I don't have that in front of me.

 

[hsguy]

Interesting that Hong Kong, approximately the size of New York City has only had 4 deaths.

 

[Fishslayer]

I'm skeptical about ANY of those numbers. WHO is the UN of medicine and our own CDC was politicized in the "epidemic of gun violence."

In the U.S. seems like everybody has a different story and it changes daily.

Too much just makes zero sense. I just wear my mask when it makes sense, keep stuff clean and take reasonable precautions because I would have a roughly 90% chance of a dirt nap if I catch it.

I've never been one for crowds anyway. Biggest change to my routine has been not volunteering weekends at the dog rescue but that's because the owner said she would prefer I not die.

 

[Tubbsy]

Notice the per 100,000 people.... then note population.... most importantly is it says per 100,000 people... not cases....