USAF Issue M39 Value

[dr. mordo]

My best friend's grandfather was a USAF general in the 60s-early 70s and was issued an M39. It's still in the family and we were discussing its value earlier. His dad said he thinks it's worth about $500. I refrained from offering him $600 but figured I'd ask the experts here for a ballpark. His father says the serial number is 8687, which doesn't sound right to me. I only have one picture, but I can ask for more if it makes a big difference.

BTW, they have no plans to sell it and consider it an heirloom.

I'm 90% sure this is his grandfather:
MAJOR GENERAL ROBERT WIYGUL BURNS > U.S. Air Force > Biography Display

Thanks very much for any help y'all can offer!

 

[murphydog]

I cannot recall ever seeing one for sale, but I would guess the gun itself would go for mid-four figures ($5000?), more with any accessories like the holster, belt, magazine pouch, and paperwork. Its history ("provenance") is also a major plus. Good for the family not wanting to sell it but insuring it would be very prudent.

 

[BigBoy99]

Rare Gun

When the revolver was pulled from active service use, they were destroyed by the Air Force so probably only a very few genuine ones exist.

 

[squidsix]

If it has the skeletonized military mags (look like big Makarov mags)they fetch $350 each these days.
General Poe's M39 at the NRA museum is here:

 

[s&wchad]

In and of itself, that early of a Model 39 would command a premium over later examples.

Family accounts need to be taken with a grain of sale. It may have been a personal purchase, which wouldn't have that much effect on value. I'm glad the family is keeping it and they really should get a S&W letter to verify that it's a military contract gun. They should also see if they can document that it was issued to or carried by General Burns.


USAF contract guns are worth a lot more. Here's a link to one that sold last year: Auction Item

The value would be even higher if they can prove it was issued to the General. Having his issue belt and holster would also be a bonus.

 

[Tom Kent]

Not trying to hijack a post, but apparently the Model 39 was issued to some elite units in the military. I once saw an obvious model 39 in the possession of a Navy "Swimmer" (Seal?). The thing I remember most about it is that it had absolutely NO markings at all on it. No brand stamp, no serial number,no inspectors marks, nada. They did exist.

 

[BAM-BAM]

IIRC numbering on the "9mm" started at 1001 in 1954 (?) and the 39 at 2600 in 1957...............

Any special markings.... distinguishing it as USAF and/or a "General Officers" issue? Overall condition?

Heirloom value......... "Priceless" ...... fair market value..... ????????

 

[BAM-BAM]

Not trying to hijack a post, but apparently the Model 39 was issued to some elite units in the military. I once saw an obvious model 39 in the possession of a Navy "Swimmer" (Seal?). The thing I remember most about it is that it had absolutely NO markings at all on it. No brand stamp, no serial number,no inspectors marks, nada. They did exist.

S&W made 39s capable of being suppress in the 60s for the elimination of guard dogs...... call "hush puppies"

 

[kwill1911]

I believe you are missing a digit in the serial number. I have bought and sold several of these and the price can vary quite a bit. The highest sale I know of was over $8,000. These did not have any military markings so the provenance is important. If you can provide the correct serial number I can check it against my database. These were given to USAF GOs so they retained them; they were not recalled or taken out of service or destroyed. The Navy also issued Model 39s to officers and SEALs but the infamous Hush Puppy was based on the Model 39-2.

 

[Absalom]

......
Family accounts need to be taken with a grain of sale. It may have been a personal purchase, which wouldn't have that much effect on value. I'm glad the family is keeping it and they really should get a S&W letter to verify that it's a military contract gun. They should also see if they can document that it was issued to or carraied by General Burns.

USAF contract guns are worth a lot more. Here's a link to one that sold last year: Auction Item

The value would be even higher if they can prove it was issued to the General. Having his issue belt and holster would also be a bonus.

I think this cuts to the essence of the matter and the value: documentation. A private purchase pistol owned by a general that nobody has heard of (no disrespect intended, but let's be realistic) is unlikely to be anywhere near the four-digit value mentioned above and will limit the appeal to certain hardcore collectors.

Obtain a S&W letter documenting it as a military contract gun and therefore actual issue, and complement that with the existence of any other documents showing its military service, and it becomes and entirely different ballgame. But keep in mind that this requires actual proof. Something like a notarized statement from the General's son isn't documentation.

PS: Kevin posted while I typed. If he can verify the serial, that obviously helps

 

[BAM-BAM]

The Navy also issued Model 39s to officers and SEALs but the infamous Hush Puppy was based on the Model 39-2.

Per the SCS&W 4th Ed. p344 the "Hush Puppy" were first used in RVN in 1967.......the 39-2 ( and 59) were introduced in 1971.(page 345)....... so I'd guess there were both models used to build HP's as we were still in RVN through 1973 and 75(?)

 

[dr. mordo]

I very much appreciate everyone's comments. I'm working on getting more pictures and an accurate serial. But I have this quote fron my buddy's dad.

I don't think I have the box, but I have the book, and all the ancillary gear (pistol belt, covered holster, skeleton holster, mag holder, and a shoulder holster rig that I've never been able to make sense out of) and two mags. It's been shot some (~100-150 rds, guessing) but well cared for.

Hopefully I'll get more info and pics and post it tonight.

Thanks again!

 

[dr. mordo]

 

[dr. mordo]

 

[kwill1911]

Thanks for the pictures. That is a really strange SN to be USAF issue. There was a batch of guns in the 6300 to 6900 range that were shipped way out of range - late 1960s - on a government contract but not much more is know about them. Gen. Curtis LeMay had 8985 but it was a presentation piece. Your friend really needs a letter on this one.

The small holster and single mag pouch in the center of the picture were issued with the pistol and were furnished by S&W. The holster should have the number 111100 on it. It was also sold commercially with B 11 39 stamped on the back of it. The mag pouch is stamped B 77. The USAF buckles are the same as the Army GO buckles but should be nickel plated. The shoulder holster is not USGI and the flap holster is a M1916 for the M1911A1 pistol.

 

[murphydog]

If your friend is interested, here is the form to fill out for the letter of authenticity. Be sure there is a note on the request as to whether it may be a General Officer's issue pistol.

http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.com/Letter_request_form.pdf

 

[s&wchad]

That is a really strange SN to be USAF issue. There was a batch of guns in the 6300 to 6900 range that were shipped way out of range - late 1960s - on a government contract but not much more is know about them. Gen. Curtis LeMay had 8985 but it was a presentation piece. Your friend really needs a letter on this one.

That makes sense. I thought it may have gone back to S&W. The slide has forward positioned serrations and that didn't start until about ser. # 60,000.

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

Two words sum up this thread..."OH MY!"

 

[dr. mordo]

I understand - without a piece of 'smoking gun' documentation, there's just no way to know without the letter.

If I'm reading you right, though, despite the unusual serial it might still be a USAF issued gun due to the forward positioned serrations which indicate it is a low serial number gun issued late and out of numerical sequence?

Let me say again how very much I appreciate you gents sharing your knowledge and expertise.

 

[s&wchad]

I understand - without a piece of 'smoking gun' documentation, there's just no way to know without the letter.

If I'm reading you right, though, despite the unusual serial it might still be a USAF issued gun due to the forward positioned serrations which indicate it is a low serial number gun issued late and out of numerical sequence?

It may be a General Officers pistol, not just a USAF contract gun. It's fascinating and they have some great accoutrements to go with it (if they're authentic). After seeing the photos, I can't emphasize enough how important a letter will be. They originally valued the gun at $500; $75 for the letter is a no brainer...

They should also see if they can come up a photo of the General in uniform to keep with the gun. It would be ideal if they found one where he was wearing the rig!

I believe retiring Generals need to purchase their pistols if they want to keep them and a copy of the transaction would be icing on the cake! If the factory letter comes up positive, they should pursue it with the Air Force.

Do they also have his dress uniform and medals?