Using jacketed ammo to clean/delead borr.

[Doug.38PR]

I don't reload lead anymore because of some severe leading I had with a 44 Special.

I did the normal Hoppes and brush routine. No go.

I used Lead Away cloths. Some lead cleaned but still, no go.

I used some Shooter's Choice Lead solvent and let it soak in the barrel for a few rounds of 24 hour periods. Again this helped but No Go. It got most of it out but still leaded but not severely.

On the advice of an old timer at the LGS who knows his stuff I shot a few plated bullets through on my next range trip. Clean as a whistle!

So I'll stick to plated or jacketed bullets from now on so I never have to scrub like I did or expose myself to the chemical solvents.

Hickock45 did a video on the subject and he's been shooting the lead out for decades.
YouTube

Thank you. This is pretty much what I’ve been saying. Of there is anything left after a good clean that just won’t give, a jacketed followed my another good clean will get rid of everything else

 

[jtcarm]

My question to enter this thread is, “If jacketed bullets clean the bore so well, why do benchrest shooters spend so much time, money and effort with cleaning agents to remove copper fouling???” Bore fouling is fouling... shooting more rounds through on top of existing fouling will tend to iron the fouling in, not push it out. I normally sum up such a pronouncement with “YMMV” but in this case, I won’t... your mileage will not vary. This is simple Physics.

Froggie

There’s nothing simple about physics, but heres some simple math to answer your question: A .22 PPC fires those copper-jacketed bullets at three times the velocity of a magnum handgun. A cylinder full of jacketed bullets at handgun velocities is not going to leave enough copper behind to worry about.

Another reason for the OCD cleaning is to get the bore in exactly the same condition for each group. One of several reasons I’ll never be a BR shooter.

Bore fouling is not all the same and everyones mileage will vary tremendously.

In this age of non-corrosive ammo, there are probably far more barrels damaged by incorrect/overzealous cleaning than shooting.

 

[jupiter1]

The newer generation of shooters, who have grown up using only jacketed bullets, seem to be horrified at the sight of some sort of fowling in barrels and chambers. I started with .38 RNL and wadcutters and never gave the small amount of lead fowling much thought; a few minutes of time with some solvent, and a few brush strokes was all I did. Some lead fowling remained and I didn't go nuts trying to get every last bit out; probably got shot out during the next range session and replaced with new fowling.

 

[Dvus]

Ok, I've been running a few jacketed rounds down the barrel after shooting a bunch of lead for years. And the theory that it just irons the lead into the bore just doesn't hold water. The friction of the jacketed bullet will liquify the lead and it will be blown out with the hot gas following it. Here's a story that will make everyone stare in disbelief.
DON'T TRY THIS STUPID **** AT HOME!
A few weeks back I acquired a new Ruger security nine 9mm. A friend of mine gave me a box of 9mm that he had sitting around for years. It was lead round nose and he couldn't remember what the load was. I thought "oh well, at least it's cheap." I went to the range, loaded a mag full and blasted away. The target was covered in holes like it had been hit with a shotgun shooting buckshot. I thought the gun was a dud because of the grouping. As I brought the target in I could see that a lot of the bullets had "keyholed." It was then that I checked the barrel and it was leaded so bad the rifling was burried and it looked like it had silver cake frosting in it. I immediately went home and contemplated how I was going to get that much lead out. After a couple weeks of contemplation off and on, I just said "screw it" and went back to the range with some Federal 9mm fmj. I figured everyone says how well Rugers are built, so lets test that theory. I asked for a shooting bay all to myself, went in, loaded one in the mag, racked it and stood behind the partition between the lanes. Peeking around just enough to see where it was pointed, I pulled the trigger back and my head in at the same time. After the bang, I stepped around expecting to see at best a bulged barrel but no, everything was perfectly normal. No blood anywhere, no damaged gun or barrel, no bulged or blown case and most importantly, no lead covering the rifling. Now not all of the lead was gone after one shot, but a good 90% was. The rest was eliminated with two more rounds down the pipe. I finished the rest of the box and found the Ruger was very accurate and reliable. It now has several hundred rounds through it and has become one of my favorite 9s.

 

[chief38]

Some Lead fowling will happen no matter what, however if you are experiencing constant and excessive lead fowling I suspect your bullets might be the wrong size or you are sending them out the barrel at too high a velocity. A bullet that is too loose or too tight will lead more than a bullet that is the proper fit. Brownell's sells Bore Slugging kits if you are interested in measuring the actual diameter. If not, you might want to try a slightly different diameter bullet.

I shoot 0.358" diameter LRN out of most of my .38 Specials but I do have a few in which I use .357" diameter. I own 2 Model 15's (one is actually a Combat Master piece - pre model #) and while one shoots better with .358" the other prefers .357" They were made about 12 years apart so I am not really surprised.

I too am of the belief that if you shoot Copper jacketed bullets down the bore after a session of Lead, yes some Copper will be expelled while some will be "ironed in" and actually be more difficult to get out later. Thankfully, Lead is relatively easy to remove with a Lewis Lead Remover (when really heavy) and the Birchwood Casey Lead-away cloth works well too. Another trick is to use a Chamber size Bronze Brush in a Leaded barrel rather than the normal sized Bore Brush. For heavy Lead fowling, nothing beats Hoppes (the original version). Last but not least, I clean my revolvers after each Range session and there is never any heavy Lead build up, so it's not a big deal. 90% of what I shoot are Lead bullets. One of the indoor Ranges I belong to will not allow Copper (fear of a ricochet I suppose) and I do not want to load two versions (lead & copper) of each of the calibers I do shoot there. That is the reason I load & shoot Lead. The Copper bullets get shot at the outdoor Range I also belong to. It's easier for me to do it this way.

Copper removal is done chemically (takes way longer most times) and at least to me it's more of a p.i.t.a. to remove the Copper than the Lead.

 

[M29since14]

...**From the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, Third Edition, 1980, page 94.**

For the record, I have never had serious or heavy leading. I keep velocities low to moderate, and size properly. FIT IS KING.

Thanks for posting that. I have never seen that before. (I’m not saying I agree with it, or that I’m convinced. )

I absolutely agree with your “FIT IS KING” principle.

 

[pasound]

I have to agree with Hickok45's view. Years ago I had a pair of Ruger Redhawk 44's, and shot mostly 240g lubed lead SWC's in it, not at factory magnum loads, but hotter than 44spl. I had a lot of leading, and they would never clean up well. I took it to my local 'smith, and he said "shoot a cylinder full of jacketed after every 50-75 rounds." I tried it, and it worked.

 

[WR Moore]

As noted above, it depends. I don't know when the item about "jacketed after lead raises the pressures X times" was put out. BUT, back in the day, there were some lead bullet factory .357 loads [WW 158 gr Luballoy, there might have been others] that would cause your rifling to disappear in 6 shots. I can believe that condition would significantly raise pressures after a bunch of rounds. FWIW, the gun shop wisdom of them thar days was to shoot jacketed afterwards to make the cleaning easier. While I was born at night, it wasn't the night before being told this. Never did it.

CLP type items aren't the best bore cleaner available. Do it all products are beloved of supply geeks and those who have to hump stuff through the boonies. They're really no substitute for specialized products for cleaning, lubrication and protection. YMMV.

I do know that if you've got a bit of lead caught in the corners of the rifling, or similar issues after cleaning, the jacketed rounds take it out readily.

I also suggest, based on experience, that 200-400 jacketed rounds through a new barrel will remove minor machining artifacts that promote leading. There are some exceptions, I have a famous maker 1911 barrel that needed about 600 rounds to eliminate leading.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The newer generation of shooters, who have grown up using only jacketed bullets, seem to be horrified at the sight of some sort of fowling in barrels and chambers. I started with .38 RNL and wadcutters and never gave the small amount of lead fowling much thought; a few minutes of time with some solvent, and a few brush strokes was all I did. Some lead fowling remained and I didn't go nuts trying to get every last bit out; probably got shot out during the next range session and replaced with new fowling.

Me too. Most of today's commercial swaged bullets have to be pushed at turtle speeds to not lead up a bore.

 

[REM 3200]

I have used an Outers Cop Out rod with the lead out solution and my it does work but even easier I plug the bore and fill it with mercury. Yeh yeh yeh...I know they consider it a hazardous material...and it is if you heat it up and breath the fumes and a few other ways...I treat it with respect and it takes the lead OUT. Been doing this since I was 12 or 13.

And it didn't affect me, affect me,, affect meee,,,,affect meeeee____.

 

[The_Truth]

Seems to me you could shoot a jacketed bullet or a gas checked bullet and achieve some form of de-leading. It makes perfect sense.

I don't think it's meant to be a perfect solution. It's just a field solution that you should follow up on when you get home.

 

[biku324]

One thing that helps reduce leading is a really smooth bore. If your barrel is even slightly rough, lead seems to want to stay in it. The few really rough (from the factory) bores I've had I simply smoothed/polished using cotton patches impregnated with oil-soluble diamond lapping compound (the 1 micron blue is finest) fitted so tightly you can just push them down the barrel...make 10-20 one-way passes down the barrel, then clean it thoroughly; if it still looks rough, repeat. Once it looks really smooth & bright, follow up the lapping with this same process using Semachrome metal polish to finish the lapping - you cannot over-polish with reasonable use of Semachrome.

A hand-lapped, polished bore seldom leads unless you are using nearly pure lead bullets, and even then it cleans out easily.

 

[federali]

True Story

While taking a course at the Remington Arms plant, a manager brought me a ruptured .40 Glock to disassemble as I had just taken a Glock Armorer's course. The gun owner was blaming Remington ammo for the failure. He had been firing hot lead loads through his gun and had the bore thoroughly fouled. He then tried to clean it out with a Remington jacketed round. There was so much lead in the bore that it acted as an obstruction and brought the gun to a catastrophic failure.

A leaded bore must be cleaned out the old fashioned way. Never try to shoot it out.

 

[The Norseman]

No Lead Out shooting with Jacketed

A lot of good advise here again.

I only use Chore Boy (pure cooper only) strand
around Brass Bore Brush.

I use the Lewis Lead Remover Forcing Cone with
wire mesh for the Forcing Cone only.

My Cleaning Supplies are in the Picture.

 

[The_Truth]

While taking a course at the Remington Arms plant, a manager brought me a ruptured .40 Glock to disassemble as I had just taken a Glock Armorer's course. The gun owner was blaming Remington ammo for the failure. He had been firing hot lead loads through his gun and had the bore thoroughly fouled. He then tried to clean it out with a Remington jacketed round. There was so much lead in the bore that it acted as an obstruction and brought the gun to a catastrophic failure.

A leaded bore must be cleaned out the old fashioned way. Never try to shoot it out.

Doesn't Glock specifically say not to shoot lead bullets? Sounds like user error to me.

 

[DWalt]

My lead bullet loads are far from maximum, and I have never experienced much of a bore leading problem in any gun, rifle or handgun. I too have read numerous accounts of firing jacketed bullets to remove bore leading, and I cannot see any way how it could cause damage to the gun. And it apparently works OK

I have carried around a 4 ounce bottle of mercury for many years that I use if it appears there is a bore leading issue (not frequently). Mercury essentially dissolves lead through a process called amalgamation. It does work well, and for a very long time many shooters used that lead removal method. Not so common these days as using mercury is considered hazardous and mercury itself is difficult to obtain. However, if one is extremely careful to guard against spillage, which I am, elemental mercury is not in the least hazardous. If it were I would be long dead as I worked around very large quantities (tons) of liquid mercury for several years.

 

[stansdds]

Doesn't Glock specifically say not to shoot lead bullets? Sounds like user error to me.

Correct and that is because Glock uses polygonal rifled barrels. Lead bullets do not seal against polygonal rifling like they do against conventional land and groove rifling, leading to a rapid buildup of lead in the polygonal barrel.

 

[WR Moore]

Depending upon when this was and exactly what load was used, there may also be another factor in play. One of the things piezo-electric pressure measurement did was demonstrate pressure/time curves. 180 gr .40 S&W ammunition was found to be prone to pressure curves that-very briefly-exceeded SAAMI pressure limits.

Combine this with a severely leaded barrel and one might well have problems. After all, bullet setback from repeated chambering had been demonstrated to cause catastrophic failures in .40 Glocks. All of which could have been avoided had the idiot in question read and followed the instructions in the owners manual.