Victory Finish ?

[Citiboy289]

Hi new to the board and have a question, I have the possibility to pick up a Victory , with a really poor looking finish the owner had the S&W letter thing done and it said the piece was shipped to the navy contract in 1943 , with a : " military midnight black finish " , since the finish is bad I would consider picking it up and have it redone MY QUESTION is , everywhere I look I can only find references to Parkerized finish and Blue ed finish, Someone on another gunboard said he believed that the term Parkerized was never S&W name for the midnight finish but only a trade name for process? is that true?
I spoke to one refinisher who was talking about a black painted finish ?

really confused but dont want to miss a great chance on a historical item , Since through other sources I have obtained a completed Boyd 1943 holster with no issues and the original owner of the holster wings

Any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[jaegan]

As I understand it, Parkerized was a particular tradename, but yes, it's effectively the same thing (it's a phosphate finish iirc, the details elude me at the moment.) Someone with more knowledge re: parkerizing feel free to correct anything I'm wrong about there.

Personal opinion, unless you're getting a really, really good deal on the gun, you'll end up having much more money invested after a refinish that the gun will be worth. There were tens of thousands of Victories made, and I think it's safe to say that most are still out there. I'd wait on better example for collecting, but if this one is a good enough deal, they make good shooters.

I've got a very nice US Navy marked victory that I got about 4 years ago for about $300 (actually I got it as a gift, but that was about what was paid for it, I'd seen it in the shop.) I'd say it's 95%+ finish-wise. I considered it a very good deal at $300, and that was before the price spike after the Obama election. Current prices, I'd probably leave a poor finish that was much more than $300, unless I was just desperate for a shooter.

 

[murphydog]

Black Magic was the S & W factory term for their wartime finish. It is supposed to be very similar to Parkerizing. It is not painted on, but uses a liquid chemical bath and heat. If the refinish doesn't involve removing any of the stampings or metal to conceal damage, it should look fine afterward. Hope this is helpful.

 

[Citiboy289]

Thanks to those who responded , I think I am going to keep up the search and let this one pass, When i considered the price and the possible refinish It looked like a whole lot of trouble for alot of $, where as I could pick up a decent one for about 1/2 the price --- Thanks again for all the info

 

[opoefc]

Citiboy289, S&W used two different names for their dull finished Victory Models. Midnight Black and Sand Blast Blue, both being chemical bath nonreflective finishes. A very few Victory models were finished in Parkerizing, a patented process which would have required S&W to get a license and pay a royalty inorder to use the finish. S&W declined and developed their own dull finishes to meet the military contract specifications. Parkerizing is still used today and a good gun repair/refinishing shop can apply it to any gun, however in the case of your Victory model, it would not be a refinsh in the original nonreflective finish. You are probably wise to look for a better example. Good Luck, Ed #15

 

[Citiboy289]

Again thanks to all, after sleeping on it and figuring out the possible total cost ( and checking some old gunbroker listings ) By the time I got done, not counting the agravation and it not being perfect I am going to pass on that idea and just shop for something really nice for my holster and wings -- I am very sure I will be back here again, It is interesting reading

 

[dant]

I seem to recall that the "Black Magic" was one of the trade names used by Houghton Chemical Co and is basically 'black oxide', I know there was a shop over near hear,called Wickliffe Black oxide, and Chuck, the owner and later Tom bought them out, and they did it for years,mainly for industry,but LOTS of shops had guns done there, and I used them myself for years, as I hated the bluing process, the tanks and solution made my skin crawl...I 'itch' just thinking about it...did not mind and loved to do the prep work, hand polishing, but the 'bath', when it was running, I HATED.........anyway, I used to see the 55 gal drums from houghton, and they were marked "Black Magic".......( it works and comes out really nice........) NO< it does NOT come even CLOSE to a blue job,ala Smith or Colt, but does match some of the newer ,like Dulite solutions that Ruger and others use today.................it looked like they removed the 'niter' ( blue) pieces that were in the 'mix', so it now comes out more black ,than blue........................