Victory model correct finish

[blindhog51]

I just purchased a Victory model, 4" barrel, serial number V106028. It does have an ordnance bomb on the butt next to the lanyard ring, but does not have an US PROPERTY or US NAVY markings. I am assuming it to be a Defense Dept. pistol ( I'm ok with that.)
It has very little finish remaining. I wondered if anyone ( besides waiting 6 months for Roy's letter ) could tell me if a revolver that early would have been parkerized ? I would really appreciate some help. Anyone have an idea ( serial number wise ) when parkerizing started ? Thanks in advance for your help...

 

[Absalom]

I recommend that you go to the thread entitled "Victory Data Base" in this subforum. Toward the end of the "second-to-last" page DWalt summarizes the development of the Victory finish in a post, and at the top of the last page I have a couple pictures showing what the original finish looks like. Sometimes people mistake the original finish for finish wear.

Your serial falls in a range where a lot of DSC (non-military) gun shipped in late 1942. They are unmarked and usually the more interesting ones. They did not go to the Defense Dept., but to defense contractors, police agencies and other civilian destinations. A letter is only about a month at this time, and will likely tell you where it went (unlike military guns, which just shipped to some central depot or Navy yard).

 

[DWalt]

Except for a very few revolvers made up for presentation to VIPs at the very first of Victory production, which were blued, all Victories had a phosphate finish (and a few had an actual Parkerized finish, Parkerizing merely being a proprietary form of Phosphate coating). Lots of war material was given a phosphate finish to prevent corrosion, not just Victory revolvers.

Unmarked Victories, at least most of them (but not all), were supplied to essential priority users within the USA, primarily civilian law enforcement organizations and defense plant or government agency security guards. It was very difficult for a private citizen to purchase a new revolver (or indeed most any type of new gun) during WWII, just as was the case for many other consumer items, such as automobiles.

 

[blindhog51]

victory model correct finish

ABSOLOM, Thanks for the help and info...
I will try to go to that " page " . I am just learning my way around this forum...

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I wondered if anyone ( besides waiting 6 months for Roy's letter ) could tell me if a revolver that early would have been parkerized ?.

We are doing letters right now from the first week in February. I don't know where the 6 months came from.

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Except for a very few revolvers made up for presentation to VIPs at the very first of Victory production, which were blued

DWalt
What are the serial numbers of the presentation Victories, or are you guessing again?

 

[blindhog51]

would a Victory model , with only an Ord. bomb, be considered an " unmarked " revolver ?

 

[DWalt]

DWalt
What are the serial numbers of the presentation Victories, or are you guessing again?

What I have seen is the SNs are V1 through V5. SN V1 was given to Lt. Gen. W. S. Knudsen. Knudsen was the former (pre-WWII) president of General Motors, and was appointed as Director of Production, Office of the Under Secretary of War, by President Roosevelt. He is considered to have been the single most important figure in mobilizing American industry to meet wartime production needs. He has the distinction of being the only civilian to have ever been promoted to such a high military rank directly. Roosevelt felt he needed a lot of "Clout" to get such a big job done, and this rank (3-Star General) gave him that. V1 is said to presently reside in the Truman Library in Independence MO. I have seen that SN V3 went to Maj Gen Julian Hatcher, Chief of the Small Arms Division in the Army Ordnance Department. V5 allegedly went to Maj. Wm. Weingar, of the Springfield Ordnance District, possibly for office display. I don't know to whom the others went, and there may even have been more than these five presentation Victories having higher SNs.

 

[nutsforsmiths]

I own a Victory made a few months before the one you listed and it also has no markings on it. I have a factory letter stating it was shipped in 1942 to Hoboken, NJ to the United States Maritime Commission. This was the department in charge of the allotment and production numbers of merchant ships made during the war, including Liberty ships.

When I had mine lettered, I was hoping it was part of the DSC group, like going to Ford or General Electric or someplace like that, but it is still interesting and a piece of history.

 

[DWalt]

would a Victory model , with only an Ord. bomb, be considered an " unmarked " revolver ?

Except for those early Victories made under U. S. Navy contract, and marked as such, I believe all Victories had the ordnance flaming bomb stamp no mater where they were sent. The "Marking" referred to is the "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" topstrap stamping, later shortened to "U. S. PROPERTY."

In addition to the DSC Victories (records say there were 73,932 of those), revolvers going to the U. S. Maritime Commission and also to the OSS did not have the topstrap property stamping. No one seems to know exactly how many went to USMC and the OSS, but certainly not a large number. The only way to know where any unmarked Victory went is to get a letter. Chances are statistically very high that any specific unmarked Victory was a DSC gun, but not all were. Not all DSC guns went to large companies like Boeing, Lockheed, or Westinghouse. A letter might indicate one went to the "Acme Cable and Bailing Wire Company" in Chicago, as many small manufacturing companies had government contracts for war production.

 

[Absalom]

........ I have a factory letter stating it was shipped in 1942 to Hoboken, NJ to the United States Maritime Commission......
When I had mine lettered, I was hoping it was part of the DSC group, like going to Ford or General Electric or someplace like that, but it is still interesting and a piece of history.

I certainly wouldn't be disappounted about a Maritime Commission gun. As DWalt said, they are a lot rarer than DSC guns. And they have a better chance of having an exciting history attached, even though you won't know for sure. As you're aware, these USMC guns did stock the gun lockers of Liberty ships and other merchant ships like tankers in the Atlantic convoys, and a gun sent to Hoboken in 1942 may have crossed the ocean during the Battle of the Atlantic. Better than guarding some factory in Anytown, USA .
In reference to DWalt's comments about where DSC guns went, my favorite destination in a Victory letter I've seen is the Hershey Chocolate Company.

 

[Muley Gil]

"In reference to DWalt's comments about where DSC guns went, my favorite destination in a Victory letter I've seen is the Hershey Chocolate Company."

Somebody has to say it; might as well be me.

SWEET!!!

 

[blindhog51]

Thank all of you for your help.
I am a 1911 guy....This is the only revolver that I own. Based on all of your comments, I will be sending off for a letter in the next couple of days.
Thanks again !

 

[DWalt]

Mythical it may be, but there is a story that a few unmarked Victories went to the U. S. Coast Guard.

 

[opoefc]

Don Mundell, There are five "Presentation" Victory Models and one Pre-Victory Presentation gun. They are serial numbers V1 through V5 and serial number 1,000,000. By order of Carl Hellstrom, these guns were assembled by the Service Dep't for presentation events. V1 was given to Hellstroms' friend, Lt. Gen. Knudsen, and later returned to Hellstrom after the war, when it was rebuilt with the new safety hammer block and presented to Pres. Truman. All of these six guns were given high polish blue finish, fancy grained smooth walnut stocks and V1 was cased in a presentation case with Truman's name on it. I have personally examined and disassembled V1 and V5, and wrote a Journal article on V1 some years ago. Serial numbers V5 and 1,000,000 are in the S&W factory collection at the Springfield History Museum. Ed.

 

[gwpercle]

We are doing letters right now from the first week in February. I don't know where the 6 months came from.

You know how 6 days becomes , 6 weeks , then 6 weeks morph's into 6 months , as the time info. is passed around the net. Pretty soon it will take 6 years for that letter....just wait and see !

 

[Absalom]

Mythical it may be, but there is a story that a few unmarked Victories went to the U. S. Coast Guard.

That's definitely not mythical. Pate has one documented. See below.

 

[blindhog51]

You folks were right about the value of the letter from our friends at S&W...
Turns out my new revolver was sent out on 9 October 1942 to the Police Department of the City of Jamaica ,NY. I believe it is on Long Island, Queens Co. ( I wonder if anyone in the force there would like to have it...... ?
Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[DWalt]

The DSC guns normally letter as being shipped to the actual end user (as yours does), rather than to some military location. Many went to police agencies, no idea as to how many or what percentage that might be.

 

[Tyree1867]

You folks were right about the value of the letter from our friends at S&W...
Turns out my new revolver was sent out on 9 October 1942 to the Police Department of the City of Jamaica ,NY. I believe it is on Long Island, Queens Co. ( I wonder if anyone in the force there would like to have it...... ?
Thanks again for all of your help.

In 1942, as now, Jamaica, NY was part of New York City and the NYPD was the police department. My Dad worked in the 103PCT in Jamaica for almost half of his 37 year career with the NYPD.