Have acquired a WELL used S&W Victory that puzzles me. It is the standard 4" in 38 special but has no property of markings on the top strap. The real puzzle is, there are British stamps on the cylinder and frame and the word "ENGLAND". stamped in small letters on the cylinder. This is not a rebored 38/200. Older slip top box 38 S&W won't fit into the cylinder. Cylinder and frame have matching serial numbers. Who wants to educate a neophyte?
Victory question
- Thread starter 30-30remchester
- Start date
kwill1911
Member
Some pictures and a serial number would be a big help.
OP
Tomorrow when the light is better, I will get photos. The serial number range in the 149XXX range.
I have one just like it. It is 38 Special. A lot of the first (I think) Victories that went to England were 38 Special. Then they went 38 S&W on the later ones. I actual sold that one, but have a 38/200 (38 S&W) now. However, it has been bored longer so you can shoot 38 Special and 38 S&W out of it.
Here is a picture of my England marked 38 Special Victory. The one on the top in the picture. This reminds me, I have to get a set of Victory grips.. LOL.
Carl
Here is a picture of my England marked 38 Special Victory. The one on the top in the picture. This reminds me, I have to get a set of Victory grips.. LOL.
Carl
Attachments
Last edited:
OP
Does your 38 Special victory have property markings on the top strap? Mine does not. Mine has had the side plate replaced for some unknown reason. My original grips look to have gone through a woodchipper at some point as well and the butt swivel has been cut off. I noticed on yours, the absence of the British crown stamp on the frame. Mine has the stamps on each cylinder and on the left side frame below the barrel pin.
Last edited:
Yes. however, there are two, possible three spots on the frame and barrel that have been rubbed, and one really hard. Appearently rubbing off import marks on Victories was a big thing back in the day. This one was uncalled for!
Carl
Attachments
I learned a lesson.
Don't buy Victories without an in-hand examination. I buy revolvers in auctions and purchase online with just pictures the seller posts, etc. The problem with Victories is that they are parked or whatever thier finish is called, which hides many defects or modifications, and the cylinders need close examinations, as many have been altered to shoot the 38 Special round. Which again was popular back in the day. And, a lot of the Military or import marks can be removed and not easily seen in an online picture. Lesson 1, I paid 250 for a real beater Victory with a bunch of problems and did sell it for 200, and begged for that. Lesson 2. The Victory I currently have that has the cylinders bored for 38 Special and on hole is bored all the way through and you can actually load a 357. Waiting for a volunteer to fire that one off. Anyway, the mark in the above picture is actually from a grinder. I paid 525 for that one. I am not sure I will get that out of it, and I feel it is important that I tell buyer that one hole is jacked. It does have a set of great grips that are wrong for the Victory and I can sell them and recoup some money. I just ordered a set of correct Victory grips for it today. Victory grips are cheap on the bay.
I may buy a Victory for my collection in the future, but it will be in-hand before any money is traded.
Carl
Don't buy Victories without an in-hand examination. I buy revolvers in auctions and purchase online with just pictures the seller posts, etc. The problem with Victories is that they are parked or whatever thier finish is called, which hides many defects or modifications, and the cylinders need close examinations, as many have been altered to shoot the 38 Special round. Which again was popular back in the day. And, a lot of the Military or import marks can be removed and not easily seen in an online picture. Lesson 1, I paid 250 for a real beater Victory with a bunch of problems and did sell it for 200, and begged for that. Lesson 2. The Victory I currently have that has the cylinders bored for 38 Special and on hole is bored all the way through and you can actually load a 357. Waiting for a volunteer to fire that one off. Anyway, the mark in the above picture is actually from a grinder. I paid 525 for that one. I am not sure I will get that out of it, and I feel it is important that I tell buyer that one hole is jacked. It does have a set of great grips that are wrong for the Victory and I can sell them and recoup some money. I just ordered a set of correct Victory grips for it today. Victory grips are cheap on the bay.
I may buy a Victory for my collection in the future, but it will be in-hand before any money is traded.
Carl
Attachments
Tom Doniphon
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 17
Many Victory Models do not have US property marks on the top strap or any other US martial markings on them. There are several reasons why your revolver could have ended up in England. When it was released for commercial sale, it had to be proof marked by one of the British proof houses. That is why it has the British proof marks on it.
The post-war Bavarian Police placed a property mark at the same location as grind-mark on Your Victory.
The grind mark on yours is where the Canadian Victories were marked.
The mark was a "C" with the Canadian broadarrow inside the "C".
Well, here is where I stick my foot in my mouth.
My friend informs me we are going to Cabela's (2-1/2 hours away) next week Friday. So, of course, I give "used firearms" a gander. And of course a Victory pops up, ha. So, this time I called and talked to the gun library custodian and had him actually put hands to the revolver. Everything checks out and all the English (actually Australian) markings are there. And the cylinders are NOT bored. No extra rub or grinder marks. This one is a 38/200 (38 S&W). And I made sure to get the Veteran discount, 5%. They are sending it to the store I will be going to a week from now. It does have the wrong grips, but that can be fixed.
Finally I may have a Victory keeper for my collection.
Carl
My friend informs me we are going to Cabela's (2-1/2 hours away) next week Friday. So, of course, I give "used firearms" a gander. And of course a Victory pops up, ha. So, this time I called and talked to the gun library custodian and had him actually put hands to the revolver. Everything checks out and all the English (actually Australian) markings are there. And the cylinders are NOT bored. No extra rub or grinder marks. This one is a 38/200 (38 S&W). And I made sure to get the Veteran discount, 5%. They are sending it to the store I will be going to a week from now. It does have the wrong grips, but that can be fixed.
Finally I may have a Victory keeper for my collection.
Carl
I have a 4" Victory model in .38 Spl. (V134XXX) that has not property mark - the only odd stamp on it I can't make out but is on the butt.
There is an etched on the backstrap is USAAF and some unreadable number ending with "#39". But that was clearly not a facotry or inspectors marking.
Good luck with your quest!
Riposte
OP
First off, I apologize for the lousy cell phone pics but am computer challenged. I had a set of Victory grips, so I replaced the ones that were trash. As stated, the side plate is off another revolver but everything else seems OK. Since the side plate stamping is "weak " I assumed it had been refinished but have since seen several others of this time frame with weak stampings. It passed the needle test with flying colors as did most other markings. The butt swivel was cut and filed off and though the serial number is strong it fails the needle test as expected. The word ENGLAND passes said test however the British proof marks fails. Real head scratcher there. Besides the serial number on the button there is also 2 letters "WB". If you will study the photo of the trigger guard you will see the side plate doesn't fit and is larger. Odd revolver will a colorful history I presume. It came with a Hunter holster as well. Usually don't mess with vintage guns with issues but for $150 I couldn't turn it down.
Attachments
Last edited:
kwill1911
Member
Pardon my ignorance but what is the "needle test?"
OP
Pardon me for not explaining better. Being a collector of antique guns, mainly Winchesters, us "snobs" have a few tests to determine if a gun has been re-blued. Most manufacturers stamp their guns after they left the finish room. Being done this way there is what we call a "halo" around the stampings. Extremely difficult to see even under close examination with a glass. When a gun is re-blued, it is polished removing the halo. Taking a sewing needle at a 45-degree angle to the stampings, a needle will stick at all the edges of an original finish. When re-blued, the needle will slip over the edges of the markings as the halo has been buffed flush. There are some extremely talented people out there that as so good that it is often difficult to tell a worked-on gun.
kwill1911
Member
Thanks for that explanation. As a long-time martial handgun collector I'm familiar with the "halo" around stampings but it is usually pretty obvious on the guns I'm familiar with.
OP
Just noticed in another thread titled "Did Victories go directly to police departments" I viewed a photo of his that shows the guns serial number stamped on bottom of barrel on the flat. Mine does not have anything on the flat. Did all Victories have their serial number stamped on the barrel?
My current Victory does, not sure about my future one. I think they all were. Not positive.
Carl
Carl
I don't claim to be an authority on Victory models, but I've never seen any S&W revolver made before around 1956/57 that didn't have the S/N stamped on the bottom of the barrel - either on the flat, or inside the ejector shroud.
As for the 'needle test', whether or not a 'halo' is present depends on at what stage the roll mark was applied in relationship to the polishing operation. Roll marks were applied to barrels on S&W's after the the contour was milled, and they were polished later - which would have removed any sign of the 'halo' you mention. Some guns from other makers had/have roll marks applied after the parts are polished, and those will exhibit the 'halo' you see on their roll marks.
kwill1911
Member
The grind mark on the upper left section of the frame looks like a former Canadian marking spot. to me.
