VIDEO OF PENETRATING OIL TEST - SURPRISES......

[chief38]

Many here (including myself) have favored Kroil lately for use on rusted and frozen bolts, screws and pins. I just stumbled upon this very interesting video that might surprise you guys. The test that the fellow in the video did seems about as fair as can be so watch the video and post your feelings. What say you??


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUEob2oAKVs&t=12s[/ame]

 

[snubbyfan]

I just watched that video last night. Kinda interesting, all ya really need is a little heat.
Or some liquid wrench.

 

[chief38]

Snubby, I agree HOWEVER once in a while heat is not an option near flammable materials or in the area of electronic components. Other than the Maxfilm I have them all but honestly have not used the Liquid Wrench in some time since I bought the Kroil. I think I'll go and give the Liquid Wrench another shake next time I need to use one.

 

[sigp220.45]

Haha! Take that, Kroil!

 

[BC38]

I've seen where this same test has been done before - with one difference. This guy used SYNTHETIC ATF and acetone - and the previous test I've seen was with regular PETROLEUM-based ATF. In that test the ATF/acetone mix was better than any of the commercial products - and significantly better than the synthetic ATF/acetone blend in this test. I think I can explain why.

The big difference between synthetic oils and petroleum oils is the length of the hydrocarbon molecule chains. A petroleum based product will have various lengths of molecules within a certain range because they are separated from raw petroleum by distilling. The synthetic oil will have molecule chains that are all the exact same "ideal" length - because they are manufactured that way.

For example: if the "ideal" molecule chain length for ATF is 18 hydrocarbon molecules, then the petroleum product will have molecule chains in the range of 12-24 hydrocarbons each. The synthetic ATF will have chains that are all 18 molecules long.

Obviously a 12 molecule chain will fit through a smaller space between the two rusted parts than an 18 molecule chain would - because it is only 2/3 as big. So with the petroleum-based ATF more molecules of the lubricant will seep through the spaces between the two rusted parts and penetrate further and provide more lubrication.

At least that is my theory on why the previous test with petroleum ATF and acetone worked better than anything else and in fact worked better than the synthetic ATF/acetone blend in this test.

Heat (when you can use it) works better than ANY oil - because the expansion of the parts changes their positions relative to each other and actually breaks apart the rust particles that have formed a "bridge" across the gap between the two parts - not to mention that when more of the heat is put on the nut it expands more and actually increases the size of the gap between the nut and the bolt (increases the ID of the nut as DWalt puts it).

 

[JohnRippert]

I believe it is the transmission fluid in Ed's Red that makes it so good at penetrating. ER and white lithium grease are all I have used for a couple decades to clean, lube and as a penetrable.

 

[DWalt]

The application of heat works because it slightly expands the ID of the nut, breaking the rust bond to the bolt threads. I have done that on several occasions, using a propane torch. For a long time "down on the farm" the use of kerosene alone as a rust penetrant was very common and it apparently worked to loosen frozen nuts and bolts. That's always what my father used. But I have no idea how well kerosene would have performed in the video test. Certainly at least as well as the much-vaunted Kroil (which doesn't appear to do much of anything except pick your pocket). Regarding the acetone-ATF mixture, I suspect that a mixture of acetone with any light lube oil would produce equivalent results. I see nothing magical about ATF. Nothing has been said about the relative efficacy of using different ratios of acetone and other oily materials. My guess is that more acetone and less (whatever) might be better, say 90% acetone and 10% ATF/Oil/etc., as more acetone as a carrier would probably penetrate more effectively, carrying the lubricant into tighter spaces.

 

[max]

I had some old farm uncles who used Coca Cola. It always seemed to work on the combines.

 

[Rustyt1953]

I became a fan of Kroil when I discovered that my brother got it for free.

 

[rwsmith]

I was surprised.....

I just thought Kroil would do better. And it's funny that old, cheap Liquid Wrench was best.

 

[sar4937]

We were trained to always rap the stud with a hammer because the vibration would take it deeper. I do favor Kroil, but use it differently. I definitely think the PB Blast and Liquid Wrench have failed me miserably as a young mechanic. Once broken, your profits spiraled to the bottom. I use Kroil liquid nowadays, I do not compare the prices, and do not know their relevance in this test. I do know that a tiny machine thread screw on a gun, and a 1/2 lug stud are different animals.

 

[chief38]

I was a Kroil fanboy as well, but since I do have at least 5 -7 other penetrating oils including the Liquid Wrench sitting in my cabinet I will give them another try ad compare myself.

While this guys test isn't 100% scientific, I do feel it was fairly consistent and unbiased.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Hydrogen peroxide is supposed to work well. Boat yard secret.

I have my Dad's can of Liquid Wrench from the 60's. It still works well.

 

[rwsmith]

Had an old millwright tell me....

I had some old farm uncles who used Coca Cola. It always seemed to work on the combines.

...that when Coca Cola was 'real' they would wrap a rag around a frozen nut and pour Coke on it and leave it for a while. When they came back the nut would be looser. I doubt if the Coke they make today would have any effect at all. The old stuff had that 'bite' to it. I really think that since the 'New Coke' debacle, they have been slowly changing the recipe to the newer taste. If you can call it that.

 

[vonn]

I would have liked to see him completely remove the nuts. Breakaway torque results were interesting for sure but he needed more rust because his untreated bolts weren’t stuck that hard and I have had many stuck that would twist the parts until the stud broke .

 

[Rule3]

I rest my case.

Been a user of Liquid Wrench for years as was my Father.

Chief,

you may want to try Neatsfoot Oil for drilling aluminum rather than that expensive Magic stuff

 

[oldman10mm]

As in post #15,breakaway torque is different than torque required for removing all the way. The rust buildup can cause the nut to lock-up and that's when fasteners break. At home I use Liquid Wrench and/or heat from a propane torch,at Tuffy's we use PB Blaster and acetylene torch. When removing and it starts to 'lock-up',tighten it back in by about 1/8-1/2 turn and then loosen again. The repeated on/off never fails,so far.

 

[chief38]

PERSONALLY....... I believe that any of the more popular products or home brews used IN CONJUNCTION with heat, maybe some vibration applied with an air hammer (if possible in the particular area) is your best shot at removing a frozen or rusted screw or bolt. With a whole lot of patience, many can successfully be removed - but some just need more drastic measures.

If you guys read my post from last week, I had to remove a 4,5" double Pulley from 1 1/4" motor shaft that had way way too much Red Locktite squirted in during Factory assembly. Even with Kroil, heat, vibration and anything else I could think of, I only managed to remove one of the set screws successfully, but the second one was not coming out. After hours, I tried left handed Drill Bits (NG) and eventually had to use a Double Cut Solid Carbide Burr. That worked but the Pulley had to be replaced. After removal I saw just how much Red Locltite was all over the Motor Shaft, Key, Pulley and Set Screws. Ridiculous!!

 

[Breakaway500]

This is what I use:

Wow..that came out HUGE. Hmm..well..it works great..and I like the name.. Actually,anything works,with a little heat added..

 

[Tom S.]

The biggest problem I have with this test is the duration. I was taught you put the penetrate and wait a day, or in the case of extreme rust (engine manifold bolts, for example) spray every day for a week. While it's not an instant solution like heat (which is my go to when it's got to be done now) this method has worked well for me, including on diesel glow plugs, where breaking one off entails removing the head.