Vintage Browning Hi Power- Pass or Buy?

[wrangler5]

I've read that the magazine "safety" was one specification for guns to be entered in the French pistol trials, for which the BHP was originally designed. The theory was that armorers could just drop the magazine before putting the gun on the shelf and be certain that it was inert, rather than having to handle the gun, rack the slide, chase any rounds that ejected, etc., all of which were more dangerous (apparently, at least to the French) than storing a gun with a round in the chamber.

I shot BHPs in IDPA matches when I first began. One had had its mag disconnect removed before I bought it. But the new one I bought came with it. It's a little square plate that sticks out of the back of the trigger and is pushed in (forward) when a magazine is installed. If it is sticking out into the mag well, the trigger doesn't connect to the linkage with the sear, but if it's pushed in or missing, everything works fine. The "problem" is that the little plate slides up and down on the front of the magazine as the trigger is pulled. You can polish the little plate, and the front of the magazines where the plate slides, and even lubricate it, to smooth out the sliding surfaces. But the trigger action is still nicer (IMHO) when the device is removed, and the magazines always drop free when you punch the button. But IDPA rules required that all factory safety devices remain in place, and while I was never checked on it at our club's fairly informal matches, that was one of the reasons I switched to Glocks (before switching to my current K frame - just to keep things on topic for the forum in general )

Parabellum is from the ancient Latin phrase "Si vis pacem, para bellum." If you want peace, prepare for war. In "print" in that form since the 4th or 5th century, but probably traceable back at least as far as Plato's time. (Per Wikipedia.) It is, among other things, the motto of the Royal Navy.

 

[Stranglehold]

So really when one is looking at a T series you are looking a gun with superior bluing and polishing. Later T series and early C series are identical because they were blued using the same process. IMHO when looking for a T series you want to get a 1968 or older gun in pristine condition, if you are going to pay a premium. Guns before 1969 are the best of the breed. By 1969- 1972 T series is only different than a C series because the serial number is using a different naming convention.

My 1969 C series Hi-Power is fully the equal of any T series pistol I've examined.

Roe

 

[Sawfish]

Buy it! Best shooting pistol that I own. It will continue to appreciate in value.

 

[federali]

Great Gun

While I'm not up on prices, that the Hi-Power is a first rate carry/home defense/survival gun is not in doubt. Also, the gun is slim through the slide, making IWB carry much more comfy than with a 1911 or a Glock double stack.

As for the 9mm cartridge: while some feel it isn't enough to reliably kill field mice, the FBI and many other LE agencies are returning to the 9mm after a two-decade affair with the snappy .40 S&W.

 

[WVSig]

My 1969 C series Hi-Power is fully the equal of any T series pistol I've examined.

Roe

Nice looking C series.

Here is a pre- T series with the rust blue finish.

 

[Ed333]

If you don't want to buy it , then pM me the contact info for the seller.

That should stimulate some movement...

 

[firescout]

In regards to the magazine safety...In my opinion & that of many others, it would be extremely silly/fool hardy to have such a device on a carry/duty handgun...If I have a cartridge in the chamber & am swapping mags to put a fully loaded mag in place .. I still want it to be able to work..

I have read/heard that argument against magazine safeties for many years, and I call 'bunk' on it in a real-life scenario. Are you really going to swap out a partially loaded magazine? Can you realistically keep track of all your shots, save the last one in the chamber, and then load a fresh mag in a 'stressfire' situation? Do you really need to be able to fire a single chambered round? Would you fire that round without a magazine in? If you do fire that round without a magazine in place, the slide will travel forward on an empty chamber, thus entailing you to then insert a loaded replacement magazine and draw back and release the slide to ready the pistol. I think the normal drill of shooting the pistol dry and using the slide release to chamber the first round from a fresh magazine is the most effective.

My favorite semi-auto protection/defensive pistol is a third-gen S&W 908. I have no qualms about the magazine safety, and in fact consider it to provide several safety advantages, over the slim possibility of wanting to fire a chambered round without a magazine in place.

 

[LT7d103]

A near mint condition T Series for that price is a very good buy. Without a photo it is hard to say if the sights are OEM. OEM target sights on a T Series are different from the later series pistols. You will kick yourself if you let it go by. Buy it...

 

[zookpr71]

I have a Belgian made Argentine contract GP35 (think it was made '60/61) The external extractor isn't that big a deal. That being said you will run into one thing, the side plate that pins the sear lever in place is very, very thin where it was serrated. Mine split and I had to have it fixed because they are beyond impossible to find. Other than that I can't speak highly enough of the BHP. They are a fantastic pistol to shoot both in feel and accuracy.

 

[357p239]

Hi-Power

The gun in question is a pre-68 Browning import. The sights are not original to the gun but are Micro standard sights. Micro also made low mount sights which required milling the slide. The round hammer bites a lot of people, but since they were made that way for thirty years it must not be a major flaw. Removing the magazine safety greatly improves the trigger pull, but it'll never be a "target" trigger. I've owned three, two pre- and one post-68. They're great guns.

 

[pinoakflats]

Hammer change

Do the micro sights look like these?

If it is a T series it pretty much has to have an external extractor. T series were made from 1963 to 1972. External extractor arrived in 1962-1963. FN always has some overlap but I have not personally seen a T series with an internal extractor but that does not mean on does not exist.

If you are looking for a safe queen T series as a classic example of a Hi Power I would pass on this gun. The micro sight was a popular modification at one time. I do not own the gun above but one like it. The micro sight is just ok. It is not a great sight I personally prefer a Bomar if I am looking at a vintage adjustable like this one.



IMHO people over pay for T series guns. The T series designation does not really denote a production change. It mainly was an inventory control tool for FN. No changes to the design or production of the parts was changed. What was changed was the process used to blue the guns. Even in 1969 FN was pinching pennies to make more guns faster and at a lower cost.

One of the reasons some many people prize these pistols is because they were the last salt blue BHP pistols which received a lot of hand polishing. Prior to 1962-1963 BHPs were rust blued. In 1969-1970 the C series designation was again more of an inventory tool there are no real changes to the design or function of the gun. What did change is the bluing process. The salt bluing was highly automated. The polishing and bluing was not done with as much hand labor as it was prior to 1969.

So really when one is looking at a T series you are looking a gun with superior bluing and polishing. When a gun is worn or has been altered the "value" of a T series is greatly diminished. Later T series and early C series are identical because they were blued using the same process. IMHO when looking for a T series you want to get a 1968 or older gun in pristine condition, if you are going to pay a premium. Guns before 1969 are the best of the breed. By 1969- 1972 T series is only different than a C series because the serial number is using a different naming convention. The guns are for all intents and purposes the same. This is why I like to examine and evaluate each example of a T or C series gun in person if possible. These days it is not so easy to do so sometimes you just have to pictures posted on the web. This is why I will not buy a T series at a premium price unless the photographs stellar because what you are really paying for is the finish.

Excellent information, but it is worth noting that other than the 69C (as pictured above) all subsequent C series and later models had a spur hammer and not the ring hammer sported by the T series and earlier FN hi powers. This is true even in the years (69-71) when FN was producing both T and C series pistols. They also moved the serial number location starting with the C70 production pistols.

 

[Bat Guano]

BHPs,properly set up, are lovely guns, and the 9mm has become a serious round nowadays. I EDC a G19, but the BHP keeps saying "Me, me, me!". Best I can say for the Glock is if it was impounded I really wouldn't care.

We are in the Era of the Ugly Gun, and we are poorer for it.

 

[jdlahood]

Sounds about right

You can't touch a modern full sized pistol for under $700.00. From what i saw it doesn" t sound like a bad price. You said the sights weren't original. I bet the workmanship is by hand and it should at least be worth that in the future or maybe a lot more. Just my opinion. She looks like beauty. No one make anything by hand anymore for less than thousands of dollars

Thoughts on value, purchasing etc. Welcome.[/QUOTE]

 

[DocB]

I bought one new in the very early 1970's. It didn't have that funny rear sight. About all I remember about it is we used to walk the river banks in Mississippi snake hunting. I could pop those snakes and turtles out in the water in head all day long with that gun.

 

[da gimp]

I have read/heard that argument against magazine safeties for many years, and I call 'bunk' on it in a real-life scenario. Are you really going to swap out a partially loaded magazine? Can you realistically keep track of all your shots, save the last one in the chamber, and then load a fresh mag in a 'stressfire' situation? Do you really need to be able to fire a single chambered round? Would you fire that round without a magazine in? If you do fire that round without a magazine in place, the slide will travel forward on an empty chamber, thus entailing you to then insert a loaded replacement magazine and draw back and release the slide to ready the pistol. I think the normal drill of shooting the pistol dry and using the slide release to chamber the first round from a fresh magazine is the most effective.

My favorite semi-auto protection/defensive pistol is a third-gen S&W 908. I have no qualms about the magazine safety, and in fact consider it to provide several safety advantages, over the slim possibility of wanting to fire a chambered round without a magazine in place.

Back in the day FireS... we first used revolvers as our duty & off duty handguns... at most they held 6 rounds... but some carried only 5 rounds... I know this is hard for you kids that grew up reading about plastic fantastic to grasp... & it was drilled into us.. that if it was safe to do so to keep our duty revolver loaded up... this was when extra rounds were at best on speed strips, some were carried loose in drop pouches and some officers carried 5 or 6 loose in their pants pockets... This translated over to when we were allowed to carry a semi-auto & it was still drilled into our heads that when a magazine was half empty.. to replace it with a full one... keeping the partial mag safe in a pocket in case it was needed...

This is similar to replacing a bottle on your breathing gear when you are fighting a fire... if there is only 10-20 minutes left on your air tank & even if the bell hasn't started ringing & you are outside.. you get the tank replaced.... with a full one... to do otherwise is to court disaster..

I have never had it happened to me on the last round/ mag safety.. but our instructors pulled up cases where it did happen...

 

[WVSig]

Excellent information, but it is worth noting that other than the 69C (as pictured above) all subsequent C series and later models had a spur hammer and not the ring hammer sported by the T series and earlier FN hi powers. This is true even in the years (69-71) when FN was producing both T and C series pistols. They also moved the serial number location starting with the C70 production pistols.

FN always blurred the lines when it comes to production parts and vintages of BHPs. Below is an MKII with modern sights ambi safety and ring hammer.



T series almost always had a ring hammer early Cs sometimes had a ring hammer whenever FN found spare parts other guns had ring hammers LOL.

I currently own 10 BHPs and have owned + or - another 7 and have never paid more than $700 for a stock BHP. Most of them have been under $550. Most recent purchase what this one. Hard chrome.

 

[MtCamper]

Just buy it

I hate pistols. I love S&W revolvers. That said I own a Browning 9 and 40. I shoot them a lot. They hit where I point them. They are not for sale. The 9 is the best shooting pistol I have ever shot. Perfect if you have smallish hands.

 

[Bakerr]

Browning HP

The original post was years ago, 2003, so surely what I add will have zero impact on the person asking "should I".

I got my Browning HP in the late 60's. Every once in a while I'll take it with me on elk hunting trips in areas where I know there are others walking around looking for opportunities to tag (steal) an animal someone else dropped. Glad that I never had to use it under those circumstances. Unlike other Browning pistols and revolvers I acquired since then when shooting the HP it can bite skin in the thenar space (webbing that connects the area between the thumb and index finger). I've had more experienced pistol users demonstrate how to avoid that from happening, but I don't have the same issue (ever) with other Browning. I chalk it up as a classic quality pistol that shoots flawlessly (never jams, with factory or home loads) but is being used by a hand that it doesn't fit.

 

[sandycarneal]

Hi-Power refers to the 13 Round magazine.

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

Fine weapon

Every collection deserves one. They are fine weapons.

 

[Wee Hooker]

Do the micro sights look like these?

If it is a T series it pretty much has to have an external extractor. T series were made from 1963 to 1972. External extractor arrived in 1962-1963. FN always has some overlap but I have not personally seen a T series with an internal extractor but that does not mean on does not exist.

If you are looking for a safe queen T series as a classic example of a Hi Power I would pass on this gun. The micro sight was a popular modification at one time. I do not own the gun above but one like it. The micro sight is just ok. It is not a great sight I personally prefer a Bomar if I am looking at a vintage adjustable like this one.



IMHO people over pay for T series guns. The T series designation does not really denote a production change. It mainly was an inventory control tool for FN. No changes to the design or production of the parts was changed. What was changed was the process used to blue the guns. Even in 1969 FN was pinching pennies to make more guns faster and at a lower cost.

One of the reasons some many people prize these pistols is because they were the last salt blue BHP pistols which received a lot of hand polishing. Prior to 1962-1963 BHPs were rust blued. In 1969-1970 the C series designation was again more of an inventory tool there are no real changes to the design or function of the gun. What did change is the bluing process. The salt bluing was highly automated. The polishing and bluing was not done with as much hand labor as it was prior to 1969.

So really when one is looking at a T series you are looking a gun with superior bluing and polishing. When a gun is worn or has been altered the "value" of a T series is greatly diminished. Later T series and early C series are identical because they were blued using the same process. IMHO when looking for a T series you want to get a 1968 or older gun in pristine condition, if you are going to pay a premium. Guns before 1969 are the best of the breed. By 1969- 1972 T series is only different than a C series because the serial number is using a different naming convention. The guns are for all intents and purposes the same. This is why I like to examine and evaluate each example of a T or C series gun in person if possible. These days it is not so easy to do so sometimes you just have to pictures posted on the web. This is why I will not buy a T series at a premium price unless the photographs stellar because what you are really paying for is the finish.

Thanks for the extensive info. The micro sights are different. The rear is similar to the one pictured but is engraved "Micro" on the right side. The front is a tall flat faced partridge. Went to look at it again and came home with a equally clean Mode 27-2 w 8 3/8" barrel. I've always been a vintage S&W revolver fan and it has been a while since I owned a 27. This one will get shot!

 

[firescout]

Back in the day FireS... we first used revolvers as our duty & off duty handguns... at most they held 6 rounds... but some carried only 5 rounds... I know this is hard for you kids that grew up reading about plastic fantastic to grasp...

As a matter of fact, my LE firearms training was back in that day: S&W Model 15 revolvers and Remington 870 Police shotguns (four round mag tube). The semi-auto training came much later.

As I also learned, virtually all LE 'shootouts' are over in a matter of seconds. Yes, extended firefights are possible, but not too likely. We did train on 'topping off' both revolver and shotgun, but it was difficult to do well (only extract/replace the fired cases quickly) in low-light, high-stress circumstances with the revolver.

I just think many people make too much negative fuss about magazine safeties.

 

[Cyrano]

I've been told the term 'Hi Power' is in comparison to the other pistols FN was offering: the Browning 1900, 1910 and 1922 in calibers 32 and 380 ACP and the Browning Baby in 25 ACP. Compared to them the P 35 was really 'Hi Power". It was the first locked breech pistol produced by the company.

 

[therewolf]

I say buy it. The GP35 is a solid gun.

 

[DepOne]

Really?

kind of like a nice mechanical watch. It does a lot of things well but is the best at none of them.

Sounds like you never heard of a Patek Philippe, Rolex or even an Oris watch. I guess you think plastic guns are elegant?

 

[gwpercle]

It's my understanding that particular firearm is top shelf quality.
What I find amusing is the "high power" name. Very deceiving.
A 9mm?...I mean c'mon, it's not a 454 Casul

You don't understand, at the time the HP came out most people were armed with 6 shot revolver's , bad and good guy's, and most were not magnums. 6 shots of 38 special or 7 shots of 45 acp were the norm. 14 shots of 9mm was a step up . It wasn't the power of the round but the number of rounds it holds. If you have 14 and he has 6...you have an edge.
Watch the movie Serpico and you will get an understanding of the times and why the HP put you ahead in a bad spot. Watch for what gun Frank Serpico arms himself with.
Gary

 

[WVSig]

As a matter of fact, my LE firearms training was back in that day: S&W Model 15 revolvers and Remington 870 Police shotguns (four round mag tube). The semi-auto training came much later.

As I also learned, virtually all LE 'shootouts' are over in a matter of seconds. Yes, extended firefights are possible, but not too likely. We did train on 'topping off' both revolver and shotgun, but it was difficult to do well (only extract/replace the fired cases quickly) in low-light, high-stress circumstances with the revolver.

I just think many people make too much negative fuss about magazine safeties.

The big issue with the BHPs magazine disconnect is that it effects the trigger pull. IMHO Systems used by Beretta and S&W don't effect the trigger the way the BHP system does.

With that said I have no use for them and whenever possible I remove them.

 

[Sundancer2004]

It's my understanding that particular firearm is top shelf quality.
What I find amusing is the "high power" name. Very deceiving.
A 9mm?...I mean c'mon, it's not a 454 Casul

"Hi Power" was Brownings way of allauding to the thirteen round magazine, when all other nines had a much smaller capacity. It did not infer FPS

 

[rt11002003]

Prior to 1955, I know my Maternal Grandfather owned one with the high capacity magazine. One night he emptied the mag at an intruder, just outside my bedroom window. Obviously, he was just scaring the intruder because he was an excellent shot. I've always wanted to own that particular handgun. I entered the USAF that year; he died a couple of years later. One of his sons was a serious collector; I was never able to get him to admit he had the gun. His son inherited the collection; I now suspect his son, my second cousin, has it. These folks rarely sold a good gun. The next time I'm in KY, I'll see if it's still in family; and try to buy it. Dealing with family members is not easy.

 

[Backlighting]

It is not deceiving at all...a handgun that was capable of firing 9mm machine gun ammo {a lot more powerful than SAAMI 9mm today} in 1935. Going back to 1935, when you consider what other handgun had this capability and had a 13 round magazine the "High Power" name is't such a deception after all. There was some surplus Israeli Uzi ammo floating around not long ago...get a box and try it, you'll get the High Power part quick.
Personally, any T series High Power in 95% or better condition is well worth $875.00. I paid that for my Practical back in 2004 and was glad to get it. T series High Powers are like 20 gauge Model 12's, Pre-64 Model 70's and Wingmaster's...after you pass on several you will wish you hadn't when you really decide it's time to get one!!!!!

Understood.
It was "high power" for its time.
Today, it is a medium power, at best.