W-231 loads in 9mm

[Para4T5]

First post so I might as well pick a few brains. I have 500 rds
of hardcast 135gr RN bullets that are actually .38 Super bullets. Has anyone tried this combo loading to 9mm specs using W-231 powder? Some of the specs I have been seeing here on the forum are considerably different than what I use. My standard 9mm load is 4.7 of W-231 under a 115gr RN jacketed. I use these in my 9mm 5" barreled pistol and in my 16" barrel AR-15. I have been using this load for years and was within spec range of 4.3 - 4.9gr of W-231. The 135gr bullets do have a slightly different contour (ogive??) and are slightly longer than the 115gr RN rounds and if my measurements are correct I am not compressing the powder charge if I stay close to maximum length overall. I don't know that the weight is that critical since I have also used 147gr
sub sonics in both of these guns with no ill effects but at the price I'd rather not waste them when I have reloads that cost a fraction of the commercial loads.. The bullet manufacturer
seemed to think that there should be no problem if I stay within specs since there is only .001" difference in diameter.
Soooooo, anyone who has done this I'd like to hear from you.
Thanks

 

[Argonnakid]

Just curious, which data book are you using?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I wouldn't go over 4.4gr W231 under a 135gr Cast bullet if it were my ammo. I think 4.7gr is a little too hot.

Why not give 4.4gr a try and send them over a chrono and see what you get?

 

[44wheelman]

I personally would keep it closer to 4 grains....at least to start.

I shoot 125 gr jhp .357 bullets in my Beretta & Sig...I get better than average accuracy with them.

 

[TSQUARED]

First post so I might as well pick a few brains. I have 500 rds
of hardcast 135gr RN bullets that are actually .38 Super bullets. Has anyone tried this combo loading to 9mm specs using W-231 powder? Some of the specs I have been seeing here on the forum are considerably different than what I use. My standard 9mm load is 4.7 of W-231 under a 115gr RN jacketed. I use these in my 9mm 5" barreled pistol and in my 16" barrel AR-15. I have been using this load for years and was within spec range of 4.3 - 4.9gr of W-231. The 135gr bullets do have a slightly different contour (ogive??) and are slightly longer than the 115gr RN rounds and if my measurements are correct I am not compressing the powder charge if I stay close to maximum length overall. I don't know that the weight is that critical since I have also used 147gr
sub sonics in both of these guns with no ill effects but at the price I'd rather not waste them when I have reloads that cost a fraction of the commercial loads.. The bullet manufacturer
seemed to think that there should be no problem if I stay within specs since there is only .001" difference in diameter.
Soooooo, anyone who has done this I'd like to hear from you.
Thanks

I don't know where you are obtaining your reloading data. TheW-W 14th edition manual lists 4.0 gr. W-231 as max with a 124 gr. lead bullet and 3.5 gr. as max with a 147 gr. lead and 4.5 gr as max with a 124 gr. jacketed bullet - all three running over 32,000 psi. You would be better advised to use a slower burning powder such as WSF for better velocity/pressuire ratio.

 

[MMA10mm]

I shoot lots of 135gr bullets in the 9mm. It's my favorite weight in that cartridge. One caveat: Mine are lead, which greatly reduces the pressure, all other things being equal (such as seating depth, etc.).

I also shoot LOTS of W231, including in that combination of 9mm and 135gr bullets. MY standard loading with that combo (again with my lead bullets, which may give far different results for you if you are using jacketed) is 4.4grs.

W231 has varied A LOT in burning rate over the years. The vast majority of the W231 I've loaded over the years (over 100 lbs) has been of a burning rate that means that 4.4grs is about max with a 135gr lead bullet. Sometimes, I've had to load as high as 4.7grs with a 125gr bullet, just to get the slide to cycle reliably... That lot of W231 was particularly slow. I've also had lots where 4.0grs was pretty warm/hot with that 135gr bullet.

My recommendation is that you start at 4.0grs and work up with the aide of a chronograph. With a 135gr bullet, you should stop at 1100fps, which is a pretty warm load with that powder/bullet weight/cartridge combination. If you get to 1250 or 1300 fps, and think you've found some sort of magic combination, you are really just proving that guns are proof-tested really well these days...

 

[Para4T5]

W-231 in 9mm loads Part 2

First off thanks for all the replies. I'll try to answer without addressing each post individually.
The data I am using was from a real old reloading manual that I copied at the library back in the early 90s when I first started loading. I do have access to a crono now and it sounds like I should go back to square one with my loads and take a closer look at what I've got. I didn't want to mention brands here but my pistol is a Taurus PT-99 and the rifle I use them in is a Colt AR-15 9mm Carbine (factory gun). After reading all the replies it is obvious that my loads are way too hot for at least the pistol and I have no idea of what kind of readings I should be getting from the AR. The 135gr load is going to be a limited run of 500 because that is all I have of them now. I most likely will go back to a standard 115gr or 124gr bullet when these are gone. I have several different brands of commercial 9mm and will have to send them over the crono for comparison.
Have any of you loaded for a rifle (carbine) in 9mm?? Any idea
of what speeds I should be getting with it?
This is the reason I joined this forum to feed off of other peoples experiences doing this. Once I get the 9mm sorted out we'll move on and tackle the 45acp loading data.
Thanks for all the advice given..

 

[MMA10mm]

Hi Para,
While I've shot my 9mm 135gr loads in an Uzi and HK-94, the chrono and those guns have not been at the range or at least out at the same time. One thing though - There is no difference in pressures you load to, so whether the rounds go through a carbine/rifle or a pistol, you can use the 1100fps in a 9mm pistol as a measure of max pressure and then just run them through the carbines while you have the chrono set up and see what you get. If I had to guess, it would be around 1400-1500fps.

 

[Para4T5]

Starting over with my 9mm loads

Guys, I am going to take everyone's advise and re-work my loads. Since I do shoot alot of USP Poppers and such with the
pistol I need to make sure they have enough power to take them down. I think I'm going to load up small batches starting at 3.8gr 231 up to 4.4 and see what kind of results I
get. I'm going to see if I can get in the 950fps area which should give me the results I'm looking for. I am going to use the 135gr hard cast bullets since I have them sitting on the shelf and can probably get more if they work out ok. I really appreciate all the feedback on this subject.

Thanks, Para4T5