W. German PPK/S 9mm kurz?

[03hemi]

Thanks for looking,
I have been looking for a German made Walther 380 to add to my collection for years, I have always wanted one. Just picked this little beauty up at my LGS yesterday. The story is it came from a customer of theirs that's an older gentleman and he bought it years ago and never fired it (yeah, right), well after breaking it down and inspecting it there is absolutely 0 carbon, anything inside it leading me to believe its true, not to mention the bluing, as you can see, is immaculate and at 99.9%.
My question to the experts here is, I know it's a later version of the PPK/S imported by Interarms to get around the ban, but is it prior to them being produced in France or did they move production back to Germany and is that when Interarms starting importing them?
Also, can anybody here put an approximate date on it based on the serial number? Thank you in advance for all the feedback and I've included several pictures, because, hey that's what we like to see anyway.
Tray

 

[03hemi]

...and more, oh yeah, I paid $450.00 for it!

 

[dubtap21]

Wow! That pistol is in excellent condition! Congrats!

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[PPS1980]

First, nice purchase. Looks beautiful, congratulations.

Walther produced weapons in France, or more correctly had them produced there, due to post-WWII conditions on armaments. They moved production back to Ulm after such restrictions were lifted, BTW, the French PPKs are well thought of and sought after in good condition. On dating of the weapon, the number next to the proof mark (the antlers) "75" tells you the year it was proofed in W. Germany.

From the early 1960's until the owners death in 1999, Interarms of Alexandria VA imported firearm models from multiple foreign manufacturers, including Walther.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 limited the size and weight of handguns that could be imported - hence the Walther PPK was barred because it was too small. To comply with GCA68, imported handguns have to score a minimum number of points. Walther was able to accomplish this by combined the frame of a Walther PP with the slide of a PPK, and thus the Walther PPK/S was born.

Walther manufactured the PPK/S in Ulm Germany until 1978 when economics and a licensing agreement with Interarms moved production to the USA. From 1978 to 1999, USA Walther PPK/S were manufactured by Ranger Manufacturing in Gadsden Alabama and distributed by Interarms.

Smith & Wesson began manufacturing the Walther PPK/S in Houlton Maine in 2001. There were several 'recalls' associated with S&W manufactured PPK/S - the latest being a 'Hammer Block' failure. I realize that this will not be well liked here on the S&W forum but, generally, within the Walther Community, the S&W model PPK's are not well regarded.

 

[Chromedhearts]

That is nice. I don't know the details but at one time Walther was having those pistols made in the U.S. and shipped back to Germany for assembly


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[PPS1980]

That is nice. I don't know the details but at one time Walther was having those pistols made in the U.S. and shipped back to Germany for assembly


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No, they did no such thing. Weapons produced by Ranger and S&W were produced here, proofed here, and are USA productions. Now, the French produced slides for PP series pistols were often sent unhardened to W. Germany for roll marking, hardening, and proofing - hence the color difference between frames and slides from that period. But USA made PP series pistols are entirely a US product and those companies faults when they were wrong (which is often the case with the S&W made weapons in particular).

The weapon in the photos was proofed in W. Germany (the antlers on the barrel make that certain).

 

[mauser9]

Love that high polish bluing! Had one I bought back around 83 stamped Interarms. Thanks for clarification on the manufacture. Think the OP did well on the price.

 

[Absalom]

.....
Walther produced weapons in France, or more correctly had them produced there, due to post-WWII conditions on armaments. They moved production back to Ulm after such restrictions were lifted, BTW, the French PPKs are well thought of and sought after in good condition. On dating of the weapon, the number next to the proof mark (the antlers) "75" tells you the year it was proofed in W. Germany.
.....

One correction:

The production under license by Manurhin in France was indeed due to Allied restrictions on Germany.

But once those no longer existed, on the PP/PPK series, all that moved from Manurhin to Walther/Ulm was the end finishing, final assembly, proofing and stamping. Even though they are stamped “Made in W.Germany”, all PP/PPK-series Walthers were manufactured in France. This arrangement only ended in 1986 as a result of corporate changes of ownership at Manurhin. Relatively small numbers were then produced entirely in Ulm.

 

[03hemi]

Knew I could get definitive expert opinions here, as always, thank you.
What do you think it would be worth to a collector, just curious, the gentleman supposed to be bringing the original box and papers in, we'll see. I think at $450 I did pretty darn good!
1975 hallmark, now that's cool. The pictures don't do justice, it looks a lot nicer in person.

 

[PPS1980]

Knew I could get definitive expert opinions here, as always, thank you.
What do you think it would be worth to a collector, just curious, the gentleman supposed to be bringing the original box and papers in, we'll see. I think at $450 I did pretty darn good!
1975 hallmark, now that's cool. The pictures don't do justice, it looks a lot nicer in person.

That is the $64 question. I can tell you that you should get a cardboard box, instruction booklet, cleaning rod, and target with the date of proofing on it. I'd suggest that you post the same pictures at the Walther forum if you want an estimate. Some pretty serious PP collectors there and you might get more specific information than I can provide. I'm just an old country doctor whose primary sidearms are modern Walther successors to your PPK. I do know that I'll give you $500 cash for it right now, even without the box and papers.....

 

[federali]

Watch Reliability

European ammunition companies load their ammo a bit hotter than our domestic stuff. Consequently, my two PPK/Ss suffered occasional failures to eject when using the latter ammo. I feel that the European Walthers are intended for European ammo standards.

As for the guy not shooting it; this is quite common. People feel they need a gun and the thing sits for half a century, undisturbed in the underwear drawer (now, what burglar would ever think to look there?). Old guns with zero milage are not as uncommon as one might think.

 

[Absalom]

... I'd suggest that you post the same pictures at the Walther forum if you want an estimate. Some pretty serious PP collectors there and you might get more specific information....

I would second that recommendation. I’m a member there too, but my focus are mostly the classic German police pistols PP/PPK/P1 and I know nothing about the market for the commercial pistols to which the PPK/S belongs.

 

[03hemi]

The question is, if he had the original box and papers, why didn't he bring those in at the time he sold the pistol? I'm not holding my breath, but you never know about some people. And yes...I'll be shooting the snot out of it.

 

[KSDeputy]

I got an Interarms SS PPK NIB for $ 500. I love it, never been fired except once at the factory.

 

[Bill Bates]

Just in front of the antler stamp on the chamber will be a letter date code.

Check here on German proof stamps.
West Germany

 

[03hemi]

Thank's Bill according to the chart it seems to be between 1951-1971! Wow, what a lucky find.

 

[BAM-BAM]

As for the guy not shooting it; this is quite common. People feel they need a gun and the thing sits for half a century, undisturbed in the underwear drawer (now, what burglar would ever think to look there?). Old guns with zero milage are not as uncommon as one might think.

The PPK/s like the PPK were often bought because of ....... Bond; James Bond.....like many had to have a 6" Model 29 in the 70s... a lot of both were never shot. I found a blue PPK a few years back still as new in the box!

 

[PPS1980]

Thank's Bill according to the chart it seems to be between 1951-1971! Wow, what a lucky find.

Unfortunately that chart is wrong. You have a precise date from the barrel "75" indicates it was made in 1975. As for Bill's letter stamp method - doesn't apply to PP series pistols.

My P99As is a "BF" date code which means 15 or 2015. My P99c is a "BG" code or 2016. But those codes were not used on PP series pistols.

 

[03hemi]

Thanks, oh well, 1975 is still darn good in my book. Appreciate you clearing that up.

 

[PPS1980]

Thanks, oh well, 1975 is still darn good in my book. Appreciate you clearing that up.

No problem. Yes, 1975 and in that shape is a great find. The chart you linked to has several problems. For extensive info on Walther dating systems and proof marks you can visit the Walther Forum.