W231 for moderate loads, not +P's, right?

[DWalt]

You can load even fast powders (like Bullseye) to +P performance levels. The Lyman cast bullet handbook shows several +P .38 Special loads using Bullseye. So of course, 231 would certainly work for +P loads for the .38 Special. And depending on your specific revolver and bullet choice, it may even be the best performer. But you won't know that unless you have a chronograph. Reloading manual MVs are more often than not wishful thinking, especially so for revolvers.

For home defense, you won't be shooting much, so you might be just as well off buying a box of +P factory loads if that gives you more confidence than using regular standard velocity .38 Special ammo. I have always felt that there's not very much advantage to using +P in .38 Special.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

For home defense, you won't be shooting much, so you might be just as well off buying a box of +P factory loads if that gives you more confidence than using regular standard velocity .38 Special ammo. I have always felt that there's not very much advantage to using +P in .38 Special.

I and several others have already said the +P designation denotes higher pressure, not velocity. Of course most time the results are higher velocities but if using a fast powder you will many times hit the pressure limits before generating the desired velocity. Velocity isn't important just for velocity but is necessary to insure reliable expansion of the bullet. Since most .357" bullets these days were designed for the .357 Magnum most anemic .38 Special loads today deliver questionable velocity at standard pressures. That's why +P ammunition is most times necessary for SD.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

WIN 231 can be effectvely and economically loaded to +P velocities in 38 S&W Special brass. It can also be loaded in 357 Mag brass at +P velocities and to significantly higher ones, albeit with lighter projectiles. Still, a 158GR XTP at over 1,200 fps using less than 7GR powder is nothing to sneeze at, IMHO.

As far as a "regularly available all-around handgun powder" it ranks up there with 700-X and 800-X in that there are published loads avaiable for almost all common pistol calibers from 25ACP to 44Magnum. Not always at the high ends of the power spectrums but certainly enough to punch holes in targets.

Cheers!

 

[ShelbyV8]

Barrel length is also a factor. 231 will produce higher velocity in 1 7/8 and 2 inch barrels than a slower burning powder. 4 and 6 inch barrels will sometimes produce higher velocity with slow burning powders depending on loading. That fire ball at the muzzle is mostly unburned powder that is doing nothing for velocity at that point.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Barrel length is also a factor. 231 will produce higher velocity in 1 7/8 and 2 inch barrels than a slower burning powder. 4 and 6 inch barrels will sometimes produce higher velocity with slow burning powders depending on loading. That fire ball at the muzzle is mostly unburned powder that is doing nothing for velocity at that point.

I'm sorry but that just isn't true. At the same pressures HS-6, Power Pistol, AA#5 and other slower powders in that range will generate higher velocities than W231 even in a 2" barrel. I know this for sure because I have tested them and the velocities just can't be matched by W231. So will Longshot, AA#7 and other powders that are just off the full magnum range. I haven't tried but I'm fairly sure so will the full magnum powders like 2400 and AA#9.

 

[noylj]

>Barrel length is also a factor. 231 will produce higher velocity in 1 7/8 and 2 inch barrels than a slower burning powder. 4 and 6 inch barrels will sometimes produce higher velocity with slow burning powders depending on loading.

Sorry, that has been disproved in the '60s, the 70s, the '80s, and the 90s. Current magazine don't seem to do ANY testing, and I don't remember this being disproved in the last 16 years.
At ANY barrel length, the powder that produces the highest velocity ALWAYS produces the highest velocity, taking into consideration the std. dev. of the velocities such that there can be a small shift in avg velocity.

>That fire ball at the muzzle is mostly unburned powder that is doing nothing for velocity at that point.

According to the powder specialists, all the powder that is going to burn will burn in the first inch of the barrel in ALL rifles, so the same must be true for handguns.
The muzzle flash is hot gasses still so hot that they radiate light. This can be controlled by muzzle suppressants that lower the temperature and reduce/eliminate the flash. Yes, there can be unburned powder, and you'll get it from fast and slow powders.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

>Barrel length is also a factor. 231 will produce higher velocity in 1 7/8 and 2 inch barrels than a slower burning powder. 4 and 6 inch barrels will sometimes produce higher velocity with slow burning powders depending on loading.

Sorry, that has been disproved in the '60s, the 70s, the '80s, and the 90s. Current magazine don't seem to do ANY testing, and I don't remember this being disproved in the last 16 years.
At ANY barrel length, the powder that produces the highest velocity ALWAYS produces the highest velocity, taking into consideration the std. dev. of the velocities such that there can be a small shift in avg velocity.

>That fire ball at the muzzle is mostly unburned powder that is doing nothing for velocity at that point.

According to the powder specialists, all the powder that is going to burn will burn in the first inch of the barrel in ALL rifles, so the same must be true for handguns.
The muzzle flash is hot gasses still so hot that they radiate light. This can be controlled by muzzle suppressants that lower the temperature and reduce/eliminate the flash. Yes, there can be unburned powder, and you'll get it from fast and slow powders.

I also stand by that theory;I remember reading about a test in the late '70, or early 80's(don't remember if it was American Handgunner or Shooting Times)reaching the same conclusion as Archangel and yours.And it was conducted with the then available scientific tools.
But I must admit that I've been always stiffeled by the guys who said that the flash was created by unburned,thus innefficient powder.Love your answer (hot gasses produces the flash).Now,I'll have something to plug up the pipes of my friends who support the ''other''theory!Thanks Noylj!
Qc