Walther PP kurz/380 value

[Yeahya]

Having a hard time. Oming up with a price on a 1972 Walther PP.
The gun is in excellent condition. Can anyone help or do you need more info?

 

[Yeahya]

The gun is going to the deceased mans good friend and shooting partner

 

[Inusuit]

The PP is probably not as in demand as the PPK. If it's just the pistol with no box, papers, or accessories, my guesstimate is between $450 and $600. I passed on a very nice one at $450 some months ago. Tell us what all the markings say, or better yet, post some clear closeup detailed pictures.

 

[Yeahya]

Ok, be home shortly

 

[Grayfox]

Condition and markings are important. Box, paperwork, spare mags, etc all make a difference. Get some pictures posted and we can make a good estimate.

 

[mrchuck]

PP stands for Police Pistol. For uniformed Police. Bigger sized pistol.
PPK stands for Police Pistol Kriminal. For Detectives plain clothes. Smaller.

 

[BB57]

The PP is probably not as in demand as the PPK. If it's just the pistol with no box, papers, or accessories, my guesstimate is between $450 and $600. I passed on a very nice one at $450 some months ago. Tell us what all the markings say, or better yet, post some clear closeup detailed pictures.

Sorry, but you've missed a key piece - a couple of them actually.

A PP in .380 ACP/9mm Kurz is comparatively rare and they bring a premium over the PP in the much more common .32 ACP/7.65mm Browning.

$600 is pretty much the floor for a Walther PP in .380 ACP in very good condition.

In excellent condition it will bring around $800. If it has the box, manual and accessories it will sell for slightly north of $1000 in the $1100 range.

In comparison, PPs in .32 ACP/7.65mm Browning in excellent condition with box will also sell for around $1000. Without a box, a PP in .32 ACP in very good condition will sell for around $500. In excellent condition it will sell for around $600.

The reduced price for PPs in .32 ACP/7.65 Browning is due in part to the importation of a large number of police surplus pistols 5-6 years ago. Those supplies have long since dried up and you don't see nice PPs popping up in gun shops as often and the prices above will continue to rise.

This is all post war pricing. Pre-war examples will sell for substantially more.

 

[Bullet Bob]

And the "K" in PPK stands for Kurz, or short - at least according to Walther.

People did start referring to them informally as 'Kriminal', which has led to the widespread confusion today.

All PP's and PPK's from after WWII to about 1985 were built by Manurhin of France. European licensing laws allows guns mostly built in one country to be marked with the country they are finished in, which is why you will see them marked "made in W. Germany". The two companies had a falling out in the mid-80's when Manurhin wanted to market one made with their own name.

So what's the OP's pistol worth? No idea, I'm terrible at prices.

 

[lrb1200]

Just a side note of info,
Pictured is my Interarms PPK/S, gun is 1972, and
purchased new by me.

Note the bold 'PP' on the lid of the box.
Deceiving to the uninformed as to what is in the box.

OP, more detail is required.

 

[Absalom]

And the "K" in PPK stands for Kurz, or short - at least according to Walther.

People did start referring to them informally as 'Kriminal', which has led to the widespread confusion today.

Sorry, no.

Walther introduced and advertised the pistol in the 1930s as the "Kriminalmodell". There is no evidence anywhere in the German literature, including Walther's own stuff, that it ever meant "kurz". That doesn't preclude some modern Walther people not knowing this, of course.

There is also no evidence that PPK is actually an acronym. In other words, "Polizei-Pistole Kriminal" (or "Polizei-Pistole Kurz") isn't a thing or a term, starting with the fact that it's bad German.

The thinking at Walther seems to have been that the PP is the Polizeipistole, and for the Kriminalmodell we add a K to the end.

Attached snips are all pre-war.

 

[P.44]

For all Walther Fans
(PP / PPK is nearly on the bottom of the side):
Paperwork

P.44

 

[Texas Star]

Do any of you wonder whether James Bond's PPK (if he was real) would have been from captured wartime guns, bought with Manurhin markings, or had Walther/Ulm markings?

Am I just too obsessed with a fictional character's pistol?

Actually, I doubt that Ian Fleming even thought about that issue.

 

[Absalom]

For all Walther Fans
(PP / PPK is nearly on the bottom of the side):
Paperwork

P.44

Interesting stuff.

The Austrian manual from 1955 is the earliest appearance of the "Kurz" claim I'm aware of.

 

[Kurusu]

Do any of you wonder whether James Bond's PPK (if he was real) would have been from captured wartime guns, bought with Manurhin markings, or had Walther/Ulm markings?

Am I just too obsessed with a fictional character's pistol?

Actually, I doubt that Ian Fleming even thought about that issue.

Bond's PPK in it's first movie appearance was a PP.

And Fleming wasn't good on guns. He wrote lots of nonsence.

 

[Steve912]

And the "K" in PPK stands for Kurz, or short - at least according to Walther.
.

PP Pistole Polizei
PPK Pistole Polizei Kriminal (Police Pistol, Detective).

Das ist alles...

 

[Simson-Suhl]

WALTHER PISTOLS MODEL 1 TO PPX, by Dieter H. Marschall. Page49, "With the beginning of the series production Walther had to deal with the naming of this new model. Often one can read the erroneous assumption that "PPK" stands for"Polizei-Pistole kurz" (short police pistol).
It is correct, however, that this abbreviation stands for "Polizei-Pistole Kriminal", as the plain clothes police(so called "Kriminalpolizei" ) were the target group.

The French were the first to produce the complete post war PP and PPK under lic. with Walther. Later they produced the finished frame and a non hardened slide to Walther in ULM. Walther roll marked the slide, hardened it and applied the finishing touchs. Proofed and marked Made in West-Germany.** (This statement is by me from reading this and other book on Walthers, the above is copied from the book).

 

[max]

I just looked at the clip on Youtube and armorer referred to the Walther as a ppk.

Bond's PPK in it's first movie appearance was a PP.

And Fleming wasn't good on guns. He wrote lots of nonsence.

 

[Absalom]

Bond's PPK in it's first movie appearance was a PP.
.....

I just looked at the clip on Youtube and armorer referred to the Walther as a ppk.

Never mind the armorer's talk in the clip, the gun he actually gives to Bond is undoubtedly a PP.

See the attached evidence

 

[oysterer]

the Gun in the picture is a PPK. Short = Kurz. Maybe even a PPK/S.

In the US there was a rule for mag capacity which brought us the PPK/S. S = sport. Same PPK length but PP grip and mags. One more round capacity than the plain PPK (I think that's what it was...).

A PPK (non S) may be rare in the S and may bring more form a collector who knows this.

Nice set anyway, may bring $500 to $600.

 

[Absalom]

the Gun in the picture is a PPK. Short = Kurz. Maybe even a PPK/S.

In the US there was a rule for mag capacity which brought us the PPK/S. S = sport. Same PPK length but PP grip and mags. One more round capacity than the plain PPK (I think that's what it was...).
....

Nope.

We can debate the optics, but to me that’s the silhouette of a PP. And I’m not the only one who thinks so. Here’s the quote from Bond-wiki:
“... and translates the scene from the novel where Major Boothroyd supplies Bond with his PPK in full (although, while identified on-screen as a PPK and presumably intended as such, the weapon used on screen is the larger Walther PP, the pistol that was the basis for the PPK)...”

It’s not a PPK/S because the movie is from 1962 and the PPK/S was introduced in 1968.

The PPK/S had nothing to do with magazine capacity, but purely with the external dimensions of the PPK. The PPK’s grip was a bit too short to meet the minimum dimensions of the GCA of 1968.

And the S does not stand for Sport, but for Spezial.