Just wondering if any of you have had any experience with either or both of the above and what your opinion of them is. Thanks!
Walther PPK and PPQ in 22lr.
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jmcisc
Member
I have a Walther P22 (similar to the PPQ) and a PPK in .380. I think that the P22 is a more accurate gun, and much easier to handle.
Just my opinion.
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I have the new production PPK/s in 22LR made by Umarex. It feels nice and weighty in the hand and it shoots well enough. Fairly satin finish with some slightly shiny slide sections. The the overall package don't feel nearly as nice as the 380 models, and the trigger has a considerable amount of slop in it before it breaks, but the 22 is half the price of those.
It's a hell of a lot more enjoyable to shoot than the 380 models though, that's for sure. I haven't had any noteworthy malfunctions or failures to cycle while using CCi MiniMags.
It's a hell of a lot more enjoyable to shoot than the 380 models though, that's for sure. I haven't had any noteworthy malfunctions or failures to cycle while using CCi MiniMags.
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THE PILGRIM
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Echo40
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I've owned a Walther PPK/S since 2015 and I love it. It's an accurate, reliable, and soft shooting pistol.
My only complaint is the notoriously heavy 17.5lb DA Trigger. Fortunately, the SA Trigger pull is only 5lbs.
Oh, and don't let anyone turn you off to it because it's "Made by Umarex" because Walther has been a subsidiary of Umarex since 1993.
My only complaint is the notoriously heavy 17.5lb DA Trigger. Fortunately, the SA Trigger pull is only 5lbs.
Oh, and don't let anyone turn you off to it because it's "Made by Umarex" because Walther has been a subsidiary of Umarex since 1993.
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I love the looks of that Series-70 Beretta in your photo. I'll have to find one in decent shape someday!
rockquarry
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I don't know what Umarex is but I had a Walther PPK/S .22 that was stamped Interarms; bought it used more than twenty years ago with box and factory target and extra magazine. Very good quality pistol in like new condition. I shoot handguns at twenty-five yards. This gun was like many small-frame revolvers and pistols, probably a capable 25-yard gun but I didn't shoot it well at that distance. I'm not sure if I ever fired it double-action in the many years I had it.
Echo40
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Umarex is a German Sporting Arms manufacturer which primarily specializes in Airsofts, BB Guns, and Rimfire Pistols. Walther has been a subsidiary of Umarex since 1993, so it really doesn't make any difference since the gun is simply being manufactured by the parent company.
Fishinfool
Member
Sounds like you have one of the originals in .22 The new ones look similar, but the old ones are built to the same standards as the Interarms imported .32's and .380's were.
Larry
My Carl Wather Ulm/Do Model PPK/S .22 had the worst trigger pull ever.
Had a GS work it over. Not great but better then it was......
Had a GS work it over. Not great but better then it was......
I had a Walther PPK in .22 made in '64 IIRC.
A used gun when I got it, I shot it a lot and carried that pistol for about 30+ years.
The only part that ever failed was a broken firing pin.
I don't remember the trigger pulls to be out of the norm for those.
I've had numerous Model PP pistols in .22 also.
No complaints there either.
These were all Post War mfg and 60's import InterArms except one which was a PX buy from the orig owner while stationed in WG in the Army.
Beautiful pistols IMO.
I don't have any experience with the later US mfgr products
A used gun when I got it, I shot it a lot and carried that pistol for about 30+ years.
The only part that ever failed was a broken firing pin.
I don't remember the trigger pulls to be out of the norm for those.
I've had numerous Model PP pistols in .22 also.
No complaints there either.
These were all Post War mfg and 60's import InterArms except one which was a PX buy from the orig owner while stationed in WG in the Army.
Beautiful pistols IMO.
I don't have any experience with the later US mfgr products
Grayfox
US Veteran
I have one of the Umarex PPK/S .22s. Good pistol, I like it a lot. Excellent shooter. And yes, they are noted for the heavy DA trigger pull. 
The original PP Series was made in .22 caliber. However, these are hard to find and very pricey.
The original PP Series was made in .22 caliber. However, these are hard to find and very pricey.
OP
Many thanks for your responses!
Another happy Uramex/Walther PPK/S 22 owner. As stated, the DA trigger is heavy, but at least on my example, it's pretty smooth. A lot of dry firing (with snap caps) has helped, but it's mostly a SA gun. The SA is about 5 pounds or so and not bad at all. The sights are small but a dab of orange nail polish helped a lot with that.
It likes CCI ammo, either Mini-Mags, or Stingers. Balks a bit with Federal Bulk pack, and absolutly refuses to work with CCI "Green" ammo. It becomes a single shot with that stuff for some reason.
I've got a nice Bianchi Model 100 IWB holster for it. I've never carried it, but it's not out of the question. Oh...extra magazines for it are pricey. That's about my only real gripe about it, but I got a couple anyway.
It likes CCI ammo, either Mini-Mags, or Stingers. Balks a bit with Federal Bulk pack, and absolutly refuses to work with CCI "Green" ammo. It becomes a single shot with that stuff for some reason.
I've got a nice Bianchi Model 100 IWB holster for it. I've never carried it, but it's not out of the question. Oh...extra magazines for it are pricey. That's about my only real gripe about it, but I got a couple anyway.
I have a Walther PP in .22 LR, the German military proofed, unmarked British L66A1 version issued as a self defense pistol in Northern Ireland. It has a steel frame and steel slide. In order to keep the slide weight down on the .22 LR PP series pistols, the slide is a little thinner in both material thickness and width. At 22.5 oz, it’s light by PP series pistol standards.
I also have the much more recent Umarex Walther PPK/S .22 LR which uses a Zamak alloy frame and slide. It also has a P22 style barrel liner and shroud, but with the shroud pressed into the frame in the same fixed barrel manner common to all PP series pistols. It also has a grip framewith no cut out in order to increase the over all weight to emulate the .380 ACP PPK/S. It does that well, with a 23.6 oz empty weight that is very close to the PPK/S in .380 ACP.
I also bought an Israeli surplus Beretta Model 71 back when they were being imported in excellent condition for around $300. It has an aluminum alloy frame and a steel slide, but the open top design of the slide keeps the weight to a minimum.
Finally, I have a Bersa Thunder in .22 LR. It has an aluminum alloy frame and steel slide with the same dimensions as it’s .380 ACP sibling.
Let’s talk about their strengths and weaknesses:
“Old” Walther PP and PPK/S .22 LR pistols
The Walther PP, PPK and PPK/S pistols are sought after by collectors in general and they tend to be pricey at around $600-$800 in good to excellent condition. Magazines are very scarce and will bring $150 in serviceable condition. However, prices for them have actually come down over the last several years making them once again almost affordable for a shooter. I think that has a lot to do with the next pistols I’ll discuss.
The “New” Umarex Walther PPK/S .22 LR
This is where I will offend a lot of PP series pistol fans. I really prefer the Umarex Walther PPK/S to the older Walther pistols when it comes to actual shooting.
It is a budget priced pistol using a Zamak alloy frame and slide and that automatically offends the purists who don’t like “pot metal” firearms (even though oddly enough many of those same critics love the Zamak alloy receiver Henry .22 LR lever actions).
Then of course there is Umarex’s primary business of making air soft guns which never helped the marketing of the pistol. Maybe Walther expected legions of loyal Umarex air soft fans would run out and buy a real gun?
In any case, Walther eventually figured out the Umarex name wasn’t helping sales and dropped any reference to Umarex. They also stopped making any reference to the alloy used in the frame and slide.
Some folks go even further and claim it is not a PP series pistol at all, based on the use of the two piece barrel. It is true that it uses a two piece barrel (liner and shroud), rather than a one piece barrel. However it is still a fixed barrel design and the use of a liner doesn’t make it less of a PP anymore than a two piece barrel makes a S&W K frame less of a S&W (Yeah, I know, that’s a whole different set of purists and a whole different argument - start your own thread to discuss it.)
I’ve detail stripped mine side by side with my PP .22 LR and functionally speaking the design is identical. (I posted a side by side review a few years ago with numerous pictures showing the similarities and differences.) The level of finish on the small parts like the trigger bar is a little lower, but it doesn’t affect the operation of the pistol. The DA trigger is just a wee bit heavier than my PP and other PPK/S pistols, and when new wasn’t as smooth (but improved with use). However, the DA trigger is heavy on all PP series pistols, it’s an artifact of the original 1929 design and the geometry used. It cannot be made lighter on any PP series pistol without compromising reliability.
Umarex Walther also incorporated a vastly better magazine on the new pistol. It has a better feed angle and allows for a bit more stagger in the magazine, greatly reducing the potential for rim lock.
One potential negative is the lack of a slide release lever. It was designed to be operated by pinching the slide between thumb and forefinger and “sling shotting” the slide to close it.
It’s still an excellent technique to use with a slide release lever equipped pistol as it ensures maximum slide travel and velocity with minimum risk of a feed issue for that first round.
It does however mean you have to partially drop the magazine to close the slide on an empty magazine.
Why spend all this time discussing it? Because despite the alloy and the Umarex association it’s a super pocket sized .22 LR pistol.
On the range, my Umarex Walther PPK/S has proven to be just as accurate and more reliable than my PP in .22 LR. In fact the only failures it has ever had have been ammunition related primer failures.
It’s a superb performing .22 LR pistol. The fact that they can be had for around $285-$300 in the “black” version and for around $325-$350 in the “stainless” (Walther’s term not mine) version is pretty amazing. Are they heirloom quality? Probably not, but then neither is any polymer frame pistol I have ever handled. But they shoot really well and their low price has taken a lot of the demand and price inflation out of the market for older Walther PP series .22 LR pistols.
Beretta Model 71
There were a number of these imported 4-5 years ago as Israeli surplus and they were selling everywhere for about $300 with a heavy steel faux suppressor attached for import purposes (and then legally removed, often by the seller before it ever went on the shelf).
Now, the lowest price I have seen lately for one was $455, with most selling in the $625-$800 range, and one example that sold for an alcohol must have been involved price of $1325.
They bring those prices because they are exceptional shooters. The open top design is very reliable and the pistol is very well made. It’s also the lightest of the bunch at 16.7 oz. If I were going to carry a PP sized .22 LR for self defense this would be the one. However, I’m also with carrying SA only pistols cocked and locked, not everyone is.
Bersa Thunder .22 LR
I paid $225 for this one about a year ago on a whim at a gun show, along with its .380 ACP sibling. They are still available for around $250.
I bought the .380 ACP mostly to assess it as an affordable option for folks looking for a reasonably priced self defense .380 ACP. The .380 ACP version is accurate enough for the job and reliable, but the light weight (19.4 oz) doesn’t help the recoil particularly with the straight blow back design The recoil is sharp, sharper than the steel frame PP series pistols and sharper feeling than the smaller and lighter FEG SMC. Bersa managed to get the design perfect in terms of maximizing perceived recoil. That snappy recoil also managed to launch its front sight off into the grass somewhere, so I had to order a replacement.
I bought the .22 LR version because I like this class of .22 LR pistols and I figured it had potential as a training pistol for new shooters looking to eventually move into a PP sized DA/SA pistol. And it does. It’s accurate for the type and very reliable. At 18.6 oz, it’s also light.
Summary
If money is no object the Beretta Model 71 is hard to beat from quality, performance, weight and pride of ownership perspectives. You should have bought the, when they were $299.
An “old” Walther PP, PPK or PPK/S comes in a close second. Both the Beretta and the Walther have a certain “classy” appeal.
The Bersa .22 LR wins hands down from an economy pistol perspective and it really doesn’t give up anything performance wise for this class of pistol. The DA trigger pull is quite nice and is in fact much better than any of the Walther PP series pistols.
The “new” PPK/S .22LR is strangely probably my preferred all round choice in the group. It’s heavy and the same weight as a the steel frame, steel slide PPK/S in .380 ACP, but it feels good in the hand and has enough weight to stabilize well. The DA trigger is really heavy, but the SA trigger is nice and with practice you master the heavy DA pull. Once you’ve done that you’ll discover that all of your other DA pistols and revolver triggers have magically become lighter. (Unless you own an 1895 Nagant, it has the worst DA trigger I have ever encountered.) I’ve never been a big fan of the finish on the “black” version but the “stainless” model looks nice, especially with wood grips.
I also have the much more recent Umarex Walther PPK/S .22 LR which uses a Zamak alloy frame and slide. It also has a P22 style barrel liner and shroud, but with the shroud pressed into the frame in the same fixed barrel manner common to all PP series pistols. It also has a grip framewith no cut out in order to increase the over all weight to emulate the .380 ACP PPK/S. It does that well, with a 23.6 oz empty weight that is very close to the PPK/S in .380 ACP.
I also bought an Israeli surplus Beretta Model 71 back when they were being imported in excellent condition for around $300. It has an aluminum alloy frame and a steel slide, but the open top design of the slide keeps the weight to a minimum.
Finally, I have a Bersa Thunder in .22 LR. It has an aluminum alloy frame and steel slide with the same dimensions as it’s .380 ACP sibling.
Let’s talk about their strengths and weaknesses:
“Old” Walther PP and PPK/S .22 LR pistols
The Walther PP, PPK and PPK/S pistols are sought after by collectors in general and they tend to be pricey at around $600-$800 in good to excellent condition. Magazines are very scarce and will bring $150 in serviceable condition. However, prices for them have actually come down over the last several years making them once again almost affordable for a shooter. I think that has a lot to do with the next pistols I’ll discuss.
The “New” Umarex Walther PPK/S .22 LR
This is where I will offend a lot of PP series pistol fans. I really prefer the Umarex Walther PPK/S to the older Walther pistols when it comes to actual shooting.
It is a budget priced pistol using a Zamak alloy frame and slide and that automatically offends the purists who don’t like “pot metal” firearms (even though oddly enough many of those same critics love the Zamak alloy receiver Henry .22 LR lever actions).
Then of course there is Umarex’s primary business of making air soft guns which never helped the marketing of the pistol. Maybe Walther expected legions of loyal Umarex air soft fans would run out and buy a real gun?
In any case, Walther eventually figured out the Umarex name wasn’t helping sales and dropped any reference to Umarex. They also stopped making any reference to the alloy used in the frame and slide.
Some folks go even further and claim it is not a PP series pistol at all, based on the use of the two piece barrel. It is true that it uses a two piece barrel (liner and shroud), rather than a one piece barrel. However it is still a fixed barrel design and the use of a liner doesn’t make it less of a PP anymore than a two piece barrel makes a S&W K frame less of a S&W (Yeah, I know, that’s a whole different set of purists and a whole different argument - start your own thread to discuss it.)
I’ve detail stripped mine side by side with my PP .22 LR and functionally speaking the design is identical. (I posted a side by side review a few years ago with numerous pictures showing the similarities and differences.) The level of finish on the small parts like the trigger bar is a little lower, but it doesn’t affect the operation of the pistol. The DA trigger is just a wee bit heavier than my PP and other PPK/S pistols, and when new wasn’t as smooth (but improved with use). However, the DA trigger is heavy on all PP series pistols, it’s an artifact of the original 1929 design and the geometry used. It cannot be made lighter on any PP series pistol without compromising reliability.
Umarex Walther also incorporated a vastly better magazine on the new pistol. It has a better feed angle and allows for a bit more stagger in the magazine, greatly reducing the potential for rim lock.
One potential negative is the lack of a slide release lever. It was designed to be operated by pinching the slide between thumb and forefinger and “sling shotting” the slide to close it.
It’s still an excellent technique to use with a slide release lever equipped pistol as it ensures maximum slide travel and velocity with minimum risk of a feed issue for that first round.
It does however mean you have to partially drop the magazine to close the slide on an empty magazine.
Why spend all this time discussing it? Because despite the alloy and the Umarex association it’s a super pocket sized .22 LR pistol.
On the range, my Umarex Walther PPK/S has proven to be just as accurate and more reliable than my PP in .22 LR. In fact the only failures it has ever had have been ammunition related primer failures.
It’s a superb performing .22 LR pistol. The fact that they can be had for around $285-$300 in the “black” version and for around $325-$350 in the “stainless” (Walther’s term not mine) version is pretty amazing. Are they heirloom quality? Probably not, but then neither is any polymer frame pistol I have ever handled. But they shoot really well and their low price has taken a lot of the demand and price inflation out of the market for older Walther PP series .22 LR pistols.
Beretta Model 71
There were a number of these imported 4-5 years ago as Israeli surplus and they were selling everywhere for about $300 with a heavy steel faux suppressor attached for import purposes (and then legally removed, often by the seller before it ever went on the shelf).
Now, the lowest price I have seen lately for one was $455, with most selling in the $625-$800 range, and one example that sold for an alcohol must have been involved price of $1325.
They bring those prices because they are exceptional shooters. The open top design is very reliable and the pistol is very well made. It’s also the lightest of the bunch at 16.7 oz. If I were going to carry a PP sized .22 LR for self defense this would be the one. However, I’m also with carrying SA only pistols cocked and locked, not everyone is.
Bersa Thunder .22 LR
I paid $225 for this one about a year ago on a whim at a gun show, along with its .380 ACP sibling. They are still available for around $250.
I bought the .380 ACP mostly to assess it as an affordable option for folks looking for a reasonably priced self defense .380 ACP. The .380 ACP version is accurate enough for the job and reliable, but the light weight (19.4 oz) doesn’t help the recoil particularly with the straight blow back design The recoil is sharp, sharper than the steel frame PP series pistols and sharper feeling than the smaller and lighter FEG SMC. Bersa managed to get the design perfect in terms of maximizing perceived recoil. That snappy recoil also managed to launch its front sight off into the grass somewhere, so I had to order a replacement.
I bought the .22 LR version because I like this class of .22 LR pistols and I figured it had potential as a training pistol for new shooters looking to eventually move into a PP sized DA/SA pistol. And it does. It’s accurate for the type and very reliable. At 18.6 oz, it’s also light.
Summary
If money is no object the Beretta Model 71 is hard to beat from quality, performance, weight and pride of ownership perspectives. You should have bought the, when they were $299.
An “old” Walther PP, PPK or PPK/S comes in a close second. Both the Beretta and the Walther have a certain “classy” appeal.
The Bersa .22 LR wins hands down from an economy pistol perspective and it really doesn’t give up anything performance wise for this class of pistol. The DA trigger pull is quite nice and is in fact much better than any of the Walther PP series pistols.
The “new” PPK/S .22LR is strangely probably my preferred all round choice in the group. It’s heavy and the same weight as a the steel frame, steel slide PPK/S in .380 ACP, but it feels good in the hand and has enough weight to stabilize well. The DA trigger is really heavy, but the SA trigger is nice and with practice you master the heavy DA pull. Once you’ve done that you’ll discover that all of your other DA pistols and revolver triggers have magically become lighter. (Unless you own an 1895 Nagant, it has the worst DA trigger I have ever encountered.) I’ve never been a big fan of the finish on the “black” version but the “stainless” model looks nice, especially with wood grips.
CCI Green tag is a more or less match version of CCI Standard Velocity.
Most .22 LR target pistols, like the S&W Model 41, High Standard Victor, etc are designed for standard velocity ammo. Some tolerate high velocity ammo, and others do not and or prohibit it.
Most general purpose .22 LR pistols like the Ruger Mark I-IV pistols, the Browning Buckmark, the Walther P22, etc are designed for high velocity ammunition. Some designs will tolerate standard velocity ammo well, while others just won’t function with it at all.
My PPK/S .22 LR will eat just about any high velocity ammo I feed it, including Remington Thunder ***** that just don’t usually work reliably in any semi auto. But it’s pretty hit and miss with standard velocity ammo.
I had to go back and check. I used the wrong word. It's "clean" not "green." It has a polymer bullet coating to reduce fouling in barrels and suppressors. It is listed as "High Velocity" and has the same stats as the CCI Mini-Mags, a 40 grain bullet at 1235 FPS, which is the reason I picked up a 400 round jar of it. It comes in various bullet colors (I've got black/green).
For some reason, my Walther just don't like the stuff.
My Rough Rider on the other hand, doesn't care.
NMPinNYC
US Veteran
Walther/ Interarms SS TPH 22lR here. Bought it unfired on GB back in 2010 all in with box and one mag for a hair over seven hundred. Found a couple of mags subsequently for fifty each. It remains new and unfired in box as I was able to acquire a Seecamp 32 and that has been a companion since.
I own a PPK/s 22 made in 1975. Bought it over 20 years and like it a lot.
I also own a Beretta 70S and I like that even better than the PPK/s. I just shoot it better then the Walther.
One not mentioned that's another great 22 is the Astra Constable. Wonderful pistol, but spare parts are hard to come by.
I owned a Bersa years ago, but it had feeding issues, so I sold it off.
I also own a Beretta 70S and I like that even better than the PPK/s. I just shoot it better then the Walther.
One not mentioned that's another great 22 is the Astra Constable. Wonderful pistol, but spare parts are hard to come by.
I owned a Bersa years ago, but it had feeding issues, so I sold it off.
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