War-time M&P info please

[Donald Paul]

...nice .38 S&W {not spl.} M&P with:
five inch, service grips, one line, large knob, lanyard ring, all matching {frame, bbl, and grips} serno:8229XX no prefix.
Any misc info on it?
Thanks.
-Don

 

[Shark Bait]

Looks like it could be a British Service Revolver (BSR). I have one with a 6 inch barrel. There are some very knowledgeable people here who will be able to tell you more.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Potentially British Service Revolver, part of the Lend Lease program. Will it chamber a .38 S&W Special round? Are there other markings/stampings on it? That would be the end of my limited knowledge . . .

 

[jmace57]

It looks exactly like the BSR I have. 5" bbl, 38 S&W. My S/N is 714129

 

[Donald Paul]

Potentially British Service Revolver, part of the Lend Lease program. Will it chamber a .38 S&W Special round? Are there other markings/stampings on it? That would be the end of my limited knowledge . . .[/QUOTE}
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...grip frame {L side} shows G.1, then 3, then LI.3.
BBL number shows a 'S' suffix.

 

[Muss Muggins]

The experts will want to know about crowns and bombs and such . . .

 

[Absalom]

...
...grip frame {L side} shows G.1, then 3, then LI.3.
BBL number shows a 'S' suffix.

Definitely a British Service Revolver, fall 1941 and too early for Lend-Lease, so it would be a direct purchase most likely by the British Purchasing Commission.

The numbers on the grip frame are assembly stuff as long as they are underneath the wood panels. The barrel S is unrelated to the serial and another factory mark.

The finish leaves me a bit puzzled. At that time, it should still be the pre-war polished Carbonia blue; yours looks too matte for that, but the stampings seem crisp and don't suggest a refinish at first sight, so the blue may just have dulled over time. The absence of any markings, either pre-Lend-Lease acceptance marks or post-war commercial proofs, is also unusual. Is there anything on the butt besides the serial?

 

[Donald Paul]

Definitely a British Service Revolver, fall 1941 and too early for Lend-Lease, so it would be a direct purchase most likely by the British Purchasing Commission.

The numbers on the grip frame are assembly stuff as long as they are underneath the wood panels. The barrel S is unrelated to the serial and another factory mark.

The finish leaves me a bit puzzled. At that time, it should still be the pre-war polished Carbonia blue; yours looks too matte for that, but the stampings seem crisp and don't suggest a refinish at first sight, so the blue may just have dulled over time. The absence of any markings, either pre-Lend-Lease acceptance marks or post-war commercial proofs, is also unusual. Is there anything on the butt besides the serial?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
...no other markings.
I forgot to include the cylinder as marked with the correct serno.

 

[Donald Paul]

Potentially British Service Revolver, part of the Lend Lease program. Will it chamber a .38 S&W Special round? Are there other markings/stampings on it? That would be the end of my limited knowledge . . .[/QUOTE}
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... grip frame {L side} shows G.1, then 3, then LI.3.
BBL number shows a 'S' suffix.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... it's not bored out. 38spl will not chamber.

 

[Howg]

A lend lease or any UK caliber 38-200 gun should have a Uk "Crowfeet"stamp

 

[Shark Bait]

A lend lease or any UK caliber 38-200 gun should have a Uk "Crowfeet"stamp

Beg to differ. My gun letters to the Brits and has no markings. Shipped on my father's 10th birthday.

 

[Donald Paul]

A lend lease or any UK caliber 38-200 gun should have a Uk "Crowfeet"stamp

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... no sir, no stamp like that.

 

[Absalom]

A lend lease or any UK caliber 38-200 gun should have a Uk "Crowfeet"stamp

Not Lend-lease and only some .38-200 guns, actually.

That is the broad arrow and the acceptance stamp from the Royal Small Arms Factory Enfield and can be found, in conjunction with the "crossed pennants" proof, only on those BSR's that were acquired by the British Purchasing Commission and shipped to England to enter British service.

Guns for other Commonwealth nations like Canada do not have it, and it was not applied to any Lend-lease guns beginning in fall of 1941 as those had a US property marking and were theoretically not British property.

Shark Bait's gun likely went to a country other than Britain; the BPC handled some batches that went elsewhere; Canada would be a likely suspect for a 6" example, even though it doesn't have the Canadian mark.

 

[Howg]

>I own quite a few British used guns, and have seen "a lot" living in Europe they are quite common. Alle I ever seen have been properly stamped with British marks, for gun that never left US continent or for some reason never made it to the British isles the lack of stamps is understandable - however I thought the Canadians stamped theirs. On older guns like the 455 every chamber is stamped with proof marks in addition to the crow etc

 

[digi-shots]

Absalom, I was thinking the same thing... Canada did get 6" BSR's

Those Canadian guns that were stamped will have the letter C with an arrow in it.

 

[handejector]

The finish leaves me a bit puzzled. At that time, it should still be the pre-war polished Carbonia blue; yours looks too matte for that,

The finish on guns from about the 670,000s on up was not as bright as a commercial gun in previous years. While not a matte finish, it is simply not as glossy a finish as earlier 1930s guns. An M&P from 1935 had about as shiny a finish as any other Pre-War S&W. They simply began omitting the last one or two polishing grits.

This particular gun might have a lot of cold blue on it. The hammer and trigger are pretty bright, indicating heavy cleaning.
Or, it may have been reblued after careful and light polishing.

Pic 1- Note the plum colors below cylinder and thumb latch.
Pics 2- Fairly flat instead of raised logo. "Frosty" cylinder (from light pitting)
Pic 3- Same frostiness on sideplate tongue.
Pic 4- Pitting visible below thumb latch.