Weapon rotation, not what you think
- Thread starter Sgt. Buzzard
- Start date
OP
I ran the range for a 200 man department and with Smith revolvers would break it down this way.
The top 5% were exceptional shooters always scoring 95% or better.
The next 5% were very good and scored between 90-94%
The next 40% were good and scored 80-89%
The next 40% were meh and scored 70-79%
The last10% were frightful and a bane to my existence. When I finally got a junior sergeant assigned to training I made sure he got those trigger jerking lugheads.
That top 5% were definitely gun guys and always carried the same gun off duty. No rotation.
The next 5% would qualify with a couple of guns.
The next 80% didn't really care either way. Owned one or more but would only qualify with one.
The bottom 10% didn’t carry off duty or would carry the 4" mod.10. Few owned another gun and could never qualify with it anyway.
Overall I'd say the bottom 50% were those who considered a firearm just another 40oz. of weight to carry.
When we transitioned over to Sig DA/SA the scores across the board went up a few points. So did the number of rounds fired in comparable incidents.
Mysteriously so did the number of unreported bullet dents and holes in the locker room. Of those I could track down it was inevitable it came from a bottom 10%.
The above is why I really like revolvers, less chance of getting hit.
As another observation, 50 years ago you had to qualify out to 50 yards with a revolver. It's now down to 25 yards with auto loaders and sometimes a RDS. The lowering of standards is all over the place.
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Doug M.
Member
The reduction in qualification standards, especially the loss of the 50 yard shot, is an utter disgrace. I have seen this as a factor: most command officers are afraid of the gun guys, and would rather lose officers than deal with the consequences of an inane, righteous use of force. That's been reported on before, and should be grounds for immediate termination.
Grady Judd should be emulated.
Grady Judd should be emulated.
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SnidelyWhiplash
Member
When budgets get tight…training is usually the first thing to suffer.
I currently carry a 4" Shield or a Commander size 1911. I also practice with them on a regular schedule.
My CCW is a Sig P365XL MS. My BUG is either my Ruger LCP or my Kel-Tec 32.
Right or wrong, and I've never had to carry a gun as part of my job, but I've often thought that in a self-defense situation it would be a bit confusing to need to think, even for a second or two; "What am I carrying?" It seems that if rotation is needed, two identical or very similar guns would be the a better choice.
I agree 100%. To me, the notion of "carry rotation" is nuts. Yeah, I do bring all sorts of guns to the club to shoot for fun; call it rotation I guess. But my defensive gun is always the same one. And I want it simple. No thumb safety, no racking the slide. Should I find myself needing it, I want to draw, pull the trigger and have it go bang. There would be far too much going on around me to consider the manual of arms and delay or fumble with the gun.
My 20 m$ . . . .
Piwo
Member
My heart compels me to want to carry revolvers. I was issued one when I came on the job. Carried them in the woods for years before that. Their use is second nature to me. However, my primary daily carry is the same blue label Glock 26 that I bought myself as a retirement present. Snub revolver as backup or primary, rarely, if required. Why? Because I shoot it better. I was a firearms instructor and went to Glock instructor school. I did the transition training for about half of our 1800 officer department. I'm totally invested in the Glock format. I find my skills with a Glock are seemingly less perishable than other guns. Because 9mm ammo (practice and carry) is so cheap and because the Glock is so easy and quick to clean and maintain, I am more likely to shoot it. Also, because it is a Glock I don't care what happens to it. Having said that, I would would feel just as protected carrying a revolver if I had to. I do carry a variety of revolvers in the woods based on my daily whims. They are my preferred recreation and target guns. But I always have the G26 with me in the truck or range bag to switch to when I return to the city.
So I guess I rotate my recreational and sporting guns all the time. Only rarely my EDC.
So I guess I rotate my recreational and sporting guns all the time. Only rarely my EDC.
heeter3
Member
I do rotate mine and shoot them very often.My rotation is between Colts (2 cobras and a ds) and S&W's (a 442 and 3 36's ,a 2 in and 2 -3ins) shooting them often is a big plus and dry firing them makes it even better and the familiarity with each makes it easy,at least for me,to know what to do with the one that is riding with me for the month.I always believed that you do what works best for you and for those that like carrying only that special one God bless and that is an excellent choice.I also rotate between speed strips and speed loaders depending on attire and weather and I use both when dry firing and live range sessions.
Faulkner
Member
Just this past Saturday alone I drove a Ford F150, a Dodge Charger, a Toyota Venza, a Jeep Wrangler with a stick transmission, and a Harley Ultra Classic. Out on the roadway with other traffic no less, taking my life into my own hands. I'm glad my reflexes were able to compensate for the "rotation" of differing vehicles.
All kidding aside, I don't think a gun rotation is that big a deal if you are already competent with the firearms. I am comfortable driving the different motor vehicles I listed above because I have past driving experience with each of them, but I don't think I'd had the same level of confidence had I decided to hit the road on a Honda Goldwing because I've never ridden one.
All kidding aside, I don't think a gun rotation is that big a deal if you are already competent with the firearms. I am comfortable driving the different motor vehicles I listed above because I have past driving experience with each of them, but I don't think I'd had the same level of confidence had I decided to hit the road on a Honda Goldwing because I've never ridden one.
My rotation firearms for ccw range from a .32 caliber to a .45 caliber. They all have one thing in common, they are all 1911 style pistols. I don't want to have to deal with a difference in grip, action, trigger, safety style or what have you. The only real difference is when I'm carrying my M-59 with its DA/SA safety, so before I take it out and strap it on, I practice several times dry-firing using the safety in both modes. Otherwise, I'm cocked and locked, and ready for that one time in my life when all my prayers go unanswered.
Llance
Llance
Good points, Faulkner. I agree that it applies in normal driving, much like a casual range trip. I can switch guns like I switch cars - in unstressed conditions. I think under stress, though, training and subconscious movements intervene. I believe most LEOs benefit from training that many of the rest of us haven't had. The old saying of reverting to training probably applies.
I wonder when driving an automatic how many of us who routinely drive sticks have unconsciously pushed down their left foot while reaching for the gearshift. I know I have. It's my subconscious in action. Bringing this back to defensive arms, unless I train myself to operate a thumb safety, I suspect my subconscious may fail to flip it off in a crisis.
Looks like a lot of posters missed the point of the "rotation" the OP was talking about.
Cylinder rotation either clockwise or counter clockwise, which was important when we only had five or six rounds to rely on and reloading was one or two at a time.
Cylinder rotation either clockwise or counter clockwise, which was important when we only had five or six rounds to rely on and reloading was one or two at a time.
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I see your point. OP addressed both cylinder rotation and carry rotation. Many of us - myself included - jumped on the carry rotation thing. I see how cylinder rotation could be a concern in different carry guns. Colt and S&W are also different in how one releases the cylinder. Give me a Colt to shoot, I'm S&W-biased and I'll push that release forward until I bleed. And STILL the cylinder won't open. . . .
I’m a little behind coming into this thread but here is my thoughts on rotation of a carry weapon.
I have carried both revolvers and pistols over the years.
Each gun had a different feel. Be it weight, grip (size, thickness, texture), trigger pull (length/weight) slide serrations, difference in slide width and racking pressure/technique etc..
I think that one should stay with ONE main carry weapon for muscle memory and because of the above mentioned reasons to be proficient.
If one carries a backup it should also be the gun they always carry.
It may be fun to rotate your guns for self protection, but is it the best choice ? JMO.
I have carried both revolvers and pistols over the years.
Each gun had a different feel. Be it weight, grip (size, thickness, texture), trigger pull (length/weight) slide serrations, difference in slide width and racking pressure/technique etc..
I think that one should stay with ONE main carry weapon for muscle memory and because of the above mentioned reasons to be proficient.
If one carries a backup it should also be the gun they always carry.
It may be fun to rotate your guns for self protection, but is it the best choice ? JMO.
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The book, The Gun That Wasn't There by Russell Smith, retired police chief of San Angelo PD., is a classic example of what can possibly happen when rotating carry firearms. An excellent read and true story about Sheriff Bill Cooksey, sheriff of Terrell County, Texas, who happened to switch carry guns on a particular day.
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fatcat3
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I see your point. OP addressed both cylinder rotation and carry rotation. Many of us - myself included - jumped on the carry rotation thing. I see how cylinder rotation could be a concern in different carry guns. Colt and S&W are also different in how one releases the cylinder. Give me a Colt to shoot, I'm S&W-biased and I'll push that release forward until I bleed. And STILL the cylinder won't open. . . .
Swear and wack it with a hammer. It won't help any, but it will make you feel better.
Some good points. I went through a stretch where I shot 1911's 95% of the time and carried a Commander size. I also practiced from the cocked and locked position so when I draw my right thumb depresses the safety then rests on the safety and I fire. The same happens (slight difference) when I carry a polymer gun, with my right thumb sliding down the slide coming to rest on my support hand thumb and bang. All of the polymer guns I carry have no safety except my S&W Compact 3.6 (has a lever not a tiny button safety) so still good. My thumb sliding down the slide is now part of my shooting motion. My S&W's and the 1911's perform the same, but I do practice.
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