Welding parts for a 44-40 DA circa 1880?

[barryatabc24]

Hi all. I'm new to the forum and have a question.

I just came across my first antique S&W 44. Its a 44-40 DA Frontier from the early 1880's. A 3 digit serial number!
Anyhoo...problem is, it looks like the rear cylinder stop broke and allowed the cylinder to free spin which in turn broke about 3/16" off the hammer! (Bummer right?)
Question is this. Does anyone know or has anyone had success welding these parts? I still have the pieces that broke off. I dont know if I'll be able to find replacement parts...

Thanks for reading!

 

[opoefc]

The hammer nose, or tip, can be welded up and reshaped, if that's the part that is broken off. I'm not sure how a free spinning cylinder could damage the hammer nose, however. It was probably broken off on purpose at some time in the past to make the gun non-fireable and safe for a kid to play cowboy. The cylinder stop is too small a part to try to weld, it would probably just melt with the heat. If you can't find a replacement, use the old parts as a pattern and make a new cylinder stop. Ed.

 

[rhmc24]

That gun has two cylinder stops. One is on the trigger and the other is a separate part. A MIG or TIG welder can put a dot of weld on so it can be reshaped and work again.

 

[delta-419]

44-40 Frontier

Wisner will make obsolete parts if you have the old one to use as a pattern. It will then have to be fitted to your gun. It ain't cheap but it is one solution. Also, David Chiconie (sp) at oldwestgunsmith.com sometimes has old antique parts.

 

[barryatabc24]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. I tried Chicone however he didn't have any of the parts I need. I am going to try my luck with a local machinist and see if he can help. I was just afraid in trying to weld the parts would fail easier but it sounds like some have had success. What do you guys think about refinishing with nickel? I have someone who said he could do it for 150.00. Completely disassembling, buff, same say nickel, and put back together. Sound reasonable?

 

[Frank46]

May I suggest thatthe parts in question be tig welded?. Less chance of distortion, burn through. And way easier to clean up. Might cost a bit more but its worth it. Hope it works out for you. Frank

 

[deadin]

What do you guys think about refinishing wit nickel? I have someone who said he could do it for 150.00. Completely disassembling, buff, same say nickel, and put back together.

I, for one, would like to see some pictures of the gun's current condition before making any recommendations about a re-nickle. Realize that a $150 buff & plate will probably lower the value of the gun unless it's in pretty bad condition in the first place. It definitely won't add any value.

 

[10/22]

Mend a broken part

The cool thing about steel is it can be welded, reshaped and reheat treated by those of us who love and understand steels nature. Take it to one who knows and let him do his thing, it's not that hard. The hard part is finding your guy.
10/22.

 

[barryatabc24]

Thanks again for the responses. There really isn't any nickel left on the exterior. Perhaps only 5%. I don't know that i'll be selling. I would like to have a nice looking pistola however.
As for the welding, I found a gunsmith/refinisher today that feels he can correct my problems. I saw some of his previous nickel jobs and it looks like he's gentle with the buffer.
I think i'm leaning towards the repairs and holding off on the refinish at this point. Since i'm so new i guess i should contemplate on it a while.
Semper Fi!

 

[rhmc24]

Watching this, the problem is not clear. Cylinder stop or stops: Is it the front or rear or both?

Do both the cyl stops come up? The front one is part of the trigger and only comes up when the trigger is forward. The rear one is a separate internal part that a spring pushes up when the pistol is cocked. If it doesn't come up it may only be its spring.

I have several of these guns and do my own work on them. Yours is the first cyl stop problem I know of. In any event, if the cyl stop is actually at fault, a Mig or Tig weld is practical.

Problem is that many gunsmiths are fixated on gas welding and can't imagine such a job. So if you can find a gunsmith with Mig or Tig weld experience he can easily fix it.

Hammer: Is the firing pin broken off? Depending on how much of it is missing, affects the repair. If it is missing completely at the face of the hammer it can be a bigger job but if it is just shortened so as not to reach the primer, a weld like above is simple to do. In either case any real gunsmith can fix it. It may or not be cheap, depending.

 

[barryatabc24]

The rear cylinder stop is broken to a point just below the frame. There is about 3/16" broken from the tip of the hammer. I have both pieces that broke off.
I found a competent gunsmith (I hope) yesterday and he feels he can weld these. Guess we shall see! Hopefully i'll have a functional pistol after all is said and done.

 

[barryatabc24]

If i did this properly, here is a picture in its current condition. Opinions of re-finish?

 

[deadin]

I don't see any signs of pitting or battering and the gun shows honest age, so I wouldn't let anybody do a "buff & plate" on it.
But that's just me. It's your gun and you will have to decide what you can live with. If the rest of it (bore and lock-up) are nice, I would consider a full restoration ($$$$) before just a quicky clean-up.
The problem with a $150 re-do is that I could almost guarantee that edges will be rounded, screw and pin holes will be dished, the sideplate fit will not be right, parts that should be blued will be plated, etc. Yes, the gun will look nice to the uninitiated, but it will even more expensive for a proper restoration at a later date by a new owner and therefor worth less than if left alone.

(Do you get the feeling that I don't like refinished guns??)

 

[rhmc24]

Here is mine of same model that I refinished. It was fairly sharp but finely pitted. It took a lot of hours to do a decent prep job for reblue. I used 'Belgian Blue', a tedious process of heating in hot water, applying the blue, steel wool, and repeat about six times. It does a good job and you can do it all in a couple hours at home.

Unless the person who quoted $150 for prep and nickel is doing it for fun, he will be working for little more than minimum wage - if he does a good job. OTOH it will look better, not worth much now and won't be worth much (if any) more after.

As for full restoration, you are looking at serious money. You can buy one of these pistols in fine condition for a lot less.

 

[barryatabc24]

I cant thank you guys enough for offering some "perspective". I have decided, for the time being at least to initiate the repairs and hold off on the re-finish. RHMC24. Beautiful job on the bluing!
Semper Fi!

 

[barryatabc24]

Is there a specific "letter" designation to this pistol when looking for grips?