what am I doing wrong - crumping cases

[ldhunter1959]

Have been reloading since early spring 2011. Using lee classic turret press with separate turrets and dies for each caliber (.38/9mm/.45acp).
Well got in my dies and turret to setup for .357 mag.
Well in trying to set up my dies for .357, and following the directions, I have consistently crushed/crumpled/messed up several cases. In one case it ripped a pretty good gash out of the case. Initially I was having too much flare and adjusted that down to nearly zero (I am loading 125 grain cast lead LRN projectiles), but still the cases are crumpling. I am using cases without primers and no powder for setting up.
I did not have any where near this much in the way of problems when I first started out. What am I missing.
This is occurring during the bullet seating step (which I guess is obvious).

 

[Shooting Padre]

It sounds like the bullet seating die is screwed to far into the turret. Maybe? I think it just may be an adjustment issue.

 

[ldhunter1959]

I started out at the recommended setting (touch the shell holder and then back out 3 turns) and then screwed the actual adjuster out, way out. But I will try backing out the die some more.
Thank you for the suggestion. I tend to take instructions pretty literally.

 

[Smee78]

It could be you need just a little of that flare back, just mabye half a turn and see if that does not help. When you drop your bullet onto the case can you start to seat it by hand?

 

[ol' geeser]

you didn't say if you're using a carbide sizing die or a regular die. If using a conventional die sometimes too much case lube will cause case deformation at various stages.......

 

[ldhunter1959]

I have never used any lube with the pistol rounds. I believe they are carbide.
The bullet will seat by hand, just barely. Can try as suggested to get back a little flare. I know with my other rounds even a noticeable amount of flaring did not cause any bullet seating problems.

 

[txbirdman]

Sounds like a lack of flaring to me too. If that doesn't work try seating and crimping in seperate steps.

 

[olskool]

i have been loading for 45 years and the best thing i have ever found for flaring cases is a lyman m die. it works in 2 steps with one pull of the handle. your problem sounds like the others have said to be a flare problem.

 

[sjmjax]

Another possibility....

Lee turret presses are easy to get out of alignment. The die and shell holder are not centered. Causes a lot of cases to get caught on the edge of the die and crumpled, torn or crushed if you don't feel the misalignment and stop.

Check the manual for the alignment procedure. Even with an aligned press, I still get an occasional crushed case and often have to physically re-align the case by hand to get it into the die smoothly.

Lee tools can be handy and economical but sometimes they leave a lot to be desired as well.

 

[Hobie1]

Is the seating die also designed to crimp? Try backing off the whole die then put in place a case with a little bit of flare/bell. Then screw the die down until it just touches the case. Then just screw the die a little bit at a time until it just straightens out the flare. Lock down the die body. Then put another flared case in and put a bullet in it. Adjust the die for the proper seating depth. If you haven't seen the problems that you were having you're almost there. You'll still need to adjust the die body in just a little bit more to get some crimp so you'll also need to adjust the seating depth accordingly.

I prefer to make crimping a seperate function. It eliminates trying to juggle both functions at the same time.

Hobie

Sorry folks. I went back and re-read the posts and the subject was covered pretty well.

 

[dirty gary]

Case belling sounds like an issue, but I've had similar problems before with turret presses. They can be a bit finicky to get perfectly aligned. I would contact Lee if belling adjustments don't help

 

[Treeman]

Most current .357 die sets are .38/.357. In order to be able to seat bullets in .38 special cases the seating die has to be shorter than it would be for .357 only. If you follow the instructions regarding screwing down and backing off you will be set for .38 special seating but the die is approx. 1/10 of an inch too deep for .357. I suspect this is what is getting you. Back that seating die out and fell your way back to a level that will crimp.

 

[wxl]

Hobie1 hit it on the nose. OP stated he set die to shell holder and backed off 3 turns. Should set to an empty case as Hobie1 said, then back off a turn or two if you are not crimping. Adjuster is used to set the bullet depth. If crimping, touch empty brass and turn in just a hair. Check a loaded round and adjust die in for more crimp.

 

[dickttx]

Seems to me that you need just a bit more flare from your flair/powder through die. Just turn it into the turret a bit more, so that you can sit the bullet on the case and not have to hold it on the way up to the seating die.
If you are using the four die set, back the seating die back three turns like you are doing then make all the seating depth adjustments with the seating stem. Then do your flair removal/roll crimp with the FCD.
Occasionally a shell holder will be not quiet right so you will have to use your left hand fingers to feel the case into the die.

 

[ldhunter1959]

For those of you who basically said I was not adjusting properly for the .357 case in .38 special die, you apparently were correct.
Sunday, using some info from here and from Lee, I patiently reset my adjustments (cool rainy day made for a good day to working on my reloading issue). After about 30 minutes I was able to generate what appears to be good rounds. Won't know until I get them to the range. For my first rounds I am using 125 gram LRN (cast lead) with 5.2 grains of HP-38 with a c.o.l. of 1.59".
hope to test them this week.
Thanks for your assistance.