What do I have?

[JesseP]

Hello, I am new here and in all of my digging, there should be a serial number on the butt/handle of this gun, there simply isn't one. the words across the top which are getting hard to read are "SMITH AND WESSON SPRINGFIELD MASS., PAT APR 3 55 JULY 5 59 DEC 18 (69+???)"

The story is my dad found it in a barn when taking his engagement photos back in the 70's, it's never been shot.

- from what I've gathered it should take a .32 caliber Black Powder rim fire cartridge
- from the 1800's possibly a 1 1/2 model?!?!
- it breaks up not down
- the number 3 is on every part including what seems to be a fancy pencil marking on the inside of the wooden grips.
- on the back side or grip or what ever you wish to call it, there are no numbers nor resemblance's of markings where numbers once were.


I will post more pictures in the comments, so look for them there!

 

[JesseP]

More pictures

 

[JesseP]

Five more pictures

 

[JesseP]

Pictures 16-20

 

[JesseP]

Pictures 21-25

 

[JesseP]

Last two photos!

This should be every angle you need to help me but if not please ask for more! I realize there is quite a bit of pitting on the gun and some spots that need attention like the tip of the barrel.

everything seems really tight except the cylinder which has a little play in it but even then, not much. The action and trigger work flawlessly as well.

Thank you in advance for all your help and wisdom.
Jesse.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! Great pictures! However, we need to see the hammer nose and a close up of the circled stamp on the cylinder face. If you could cock the hammer and take a side shot, that would let us confirm it is a rim fire gun although all .32 tip ups were rimfire. The circular stamp looks like a Belgian proof stamp. A sharply focused closeup would let us confirm that. A missing serial number hurts us a little in determining an approximate shipping date but should not affect the legality of the gun. All these tip-ups were made before the 1899 BATF cutoff date for antique guns and are not officially considered guns by them. The grips appear to be home-made or at least not factory. Or the original rosewood grips were checkered outside the factory. The model is a 1-1/2, 2nd Issue that was made from 1868 to 1875 or it's a European copy.

 

[bibain]

Hello
I am thinking of a Belgian copy.

the lock, the longer cylinder axis, the grip, the patents on the barrel ..... are different from the original model
in the oval it is surely written ELG
here is the same model
(an error is mentioned on the date of the patent, 1860 instead of 1865.)

CONTREFACON DE REVOLVER SMITH & WESSON N^0 1 1/2 2nd Issue. 10787 : JJB-Collection - Jean-Jacques BUIGNE - Armes de collection - Armes anciennes -


bibain

 

[mmaher94087]

"..in the oval it is surely written ELG". Agree. Belgian copy of the 1 1/2.

 

[JesseP]

Thank you all for the amazing input, a question from current responses:
What exactly is a "Belgian copy" and what does that do to value or anything?

Also what should I do with this thing? again it's not a family heirloom so there is no sentimental value...can it be shot? should I sell it? is it worth selling?


Attached are the photos requested...the oval does say ELG and it is a rim fire pistol!

 

[Inusuit]

What exactly is a "Belgian copy" and what does that do to value or anything?

Also what should I do with this thing? again it's not a family heirloom so there is no sentimental value...can it be shot? should I sell it? is it worth selling?

I'm not an expert and you will get better answers from those who are.

Based on the popularity of Smith and Wesson firearms in this era, several companies in Europe and even South America produced replicas or copies S&W revolvers. A copy is worth less than an original, but I have no idea what your firearm is worth.

It is probably safe to shoot with black powder ammunition which may be difficult to find and expensive when you do.

 

[BMur]

European Copy

I think Bibain nailed it.

After all he lives in Europe? Also, the website example that he posted clearly gives one an idea of the value of the European copy of a Smith & Wesson in Europe. 750 Euro's translates to $892 (U.S. Dollars) for the copy that he posted as the asking price.

I'm not sure you would get that price in the U.S? but there are Smith & Wesson collectors that are interested in having at least one quality copy in their collection as a comparison/comparable example.

Some copies are actually very good quality. Not unlike Bulldog copies of the original Webley revolver? A lot of collectors actually like them and collect them in volume.
I'm a fan of Bulldog copies and have a few in my collection that are extremely well made and very unique: Examples: Having extremely long barrels? Or elaborate engraving? Very fancy grips? Very large caliber? 50 cal centerfires? I personally think those features are very attractive to collectors! Nothing like a 50 Cal antique Bulldog pistol what was used in the Boer Wars to wake up your interest!! They also made .50 cal civilian models with short and long barrels and these variations that I mentioned go for a lot of $$$ !!! In fact they are hard to find now and when found it's not unusual for a bidding war to result!!

Early examples that were sold in Volume in the USA begining in the late 1870's were: CALIFORNIA BULLDOG, WESTERN BULLDOG, TEXAS BULLDOG, SOUTHERN BULLDOG, LION, FRONTIER BULLDOG, etc. These European made copies were featured and sold in the USA from the late 1870's until the turn of the century and can clearly be seen in many Major Distributor catalogs from that ERA!!!

*** I think it's time to start waking up to the international collectable market place. You might miss out on a great investment if you maintain a closed mind on copies!


Murph

 

[opoefc]

Foreign ( Maybe Belgium ) copy of a Smith & Wesson Old Model 1 1/2 made by unknown maker but proofed in Leige's proof house. Curiosity value in US of maybe $100. Ed