What do I need to know to buy a Sport II

[Whitwabit]

Need some help and a lot of info .. With the happenings of the past 6 months I feel a need to invest in an AR type of rifle .. I know nothing about them .. Have been a pistol shooter all my life and have done some bird shooting .. but no rifles in my collection ..

Have decided on a S&W Sport II .. but which model ?? maybe looking to start at model 10202

So what model of the S&W Sport II do I really want ?? Looked on Buds and there must be 10 or more different set ups .. $600 to $1000 would be my price range with all the accessories I would need added to the initial price of the rifle ..

Will use the rifle for target practice mainly .. The range I belong to has a 100/200/300 yard range plus another 100 yard range too .. so target practice out that far and maybe an occasional coyote hunt .. and maybe a future hog hunt in Texas if I can talk my niece's husband to set one up for us ..

Would maybe a red dot of some kind or is a varmint scope a better set up ?? What accessories will I need

Appreciate all the help I can get !!

 

[Ballistic147]

As far as I know the Sport II only comes in 1 model with 3 variations. They have for the communist states a CA compliant and an NJ/MA compliant models. For the rest of us in the currently free world there is just a standard model Sport II. S&W does have other versions which do cost more but the Sport II is a very good choice for an entry level AR.

From the sounds of it you're looking more for a 100 yard and beyond rifle. For this a scope is IMO the way to go. If you will be doing mostly 100 yards or less plinking or home defense a red dot or iron sights would work.

Be careful adding cool stuff to it at first. Best advice is to pick one up and shoot it as is for a while to determine what you want out of the rifle. From there you can easily add the accessories you will actually use as you go.

 

[MichiganScott]

A Sport II is a Sport II. There are a couple of different models for those shooters that have to live with restrictions on certain features, but the basic model is the 10202.

Buy the rifle and shoot the snot out of it before buying and accessories. It will be cheaper in the long run.

I have red dots on a couple of my rifles and find them adequate for 200 yards. I have low power scopes in the range of 1-4x and 1.5-5x on a couple of others and find them adequate for as far out as I wish to shoot. I find a large varmint scope out of place on a carbine with a 16 inch barrel. It upsets the balance and looks like you have a rifle mounted on the scope and not the other way around. The high power is not necessary unless you shoot tiny targets like prairie dogs.

The most important thing you need to know is currently there is a run on all things AR. If you want one you need to act now. They may be out of stock later.

 

[C J]

I had my Sport shooting 12"-18" groups at 150 yards using the iron sights before I bought a red dot. The red dot just makes picking up the target quicker, not really more accurate IMO. The irons work fine for that if you are accustomed to iron sights. I thought that was pretty good for an entry level AR with iron sights. I can shoot leaves of grass in two from 30 yards with it. There's certainly nothing wrong the accuracy on mine. Your mileage may vary of course. Not all rifles are created equal even if they have the same brand on them.

The best part about the Sport II is they can be bought for $500 or so. That makes them an especially good deal IMO. I don't see a lot of improvement in models that cost double that. Maybe I'm just too dumb to know the difference but mine shoots every time I pull the trigger and it shoots accurate. I don't know what else there is besides durability and the S&W warranty makes that point moot really. Any rifle can be be shot too much but IMO it will take quite a while to shoot the Sport too many times. Most likely the barrel might need replacing at some point if you shoot a whole lot but that's down the road pretty far.

 

[WVSig]

If it was me I would not try to buy an S&W Sport II unless you are able to get it for $500-$525 which is what they should be priced at.

Even though the shooter in Orlando did not even use an AR15 the mass shooting is creating a run on AR15 rifles.

There were lots of good rifles available in the $500-$600 range before the Orlando nightclub shooting but most have been cleared out. If it was me I would wait a month or so. People will calm down and prices will come back down before the election which may or may not cause another round of panic buying.

 

[WVSig]

I had my Sport shooting 12"-18" groups at 150 yards using the iron sights before I bought a red dot. The red dot just makes picking up the target quicker, not really more accurate IMO. The irons work fine for that if you are accustomed to iron sights. I thought that was pretty good for an entry level AR with iron sights. I can shoot leaves of grass in two from 30 yards with it. There's certainly nothing wrong the accuracy on mine. Your mileage may vary of course. Not all rifles are created equal even if they have the same brand on them.

The best part about the Sport II is they can be bought for $500 or so. That makes them an especially good deal IMO. I don't see a lot of improvement in models that cost double that. Maybe I'm just too dumb to know the difference but mine shoots every time I pull the trigger and it shoots accurate. I don't know what else there is besides durability and the S&W warranty makes that point moot really. Any rifle can be be shot too much but IMO it will take quite a while to shoot the Sport too many times. Most likely the barrel might need replacing at some point if you shoot a whole lot but that's down the road pretty far.

This is why I always suggest to new AR15 shooters to shoot about 1000 rounds with iron sights. This allows you to get used to the gun and how to shoot it with a proper sight picture. The S&W Sport II should be capable of 3"-4" groups at 100 yards off a rest with iron sights. It is not a sub MOA rifle but well within milspec.

Once you can consistently shoot 4" groups with iron sights I then suggest getting a scope. Once you have a solid shooting foundation then you can "better" pick a scope that will work for you. You will have a better frame of reference IMHO. If you are shooting 0-300 yards a red dot can serve you well but you need to understand bullet drop in order to shoot it at distance. If you shoot a lot at 200 to 500 yards then a magnified scope makes more sense.

The Sport II is great budget rifle but there are real reasons to move to a more expensive rifle. The number one issue is that the 1/9 twist is not ideal for rounds weighing more than 75 grs. Many people's match ammo of choice is 77 grs and the 1/9 twist will not always work in these barrels.

Also when you step up in rifles you get better QC, higher quality components, better fitting, longer lasting and more accurate rifles dedicated to more specific tasks. The Sport II is a great plinker but it is not a dedicated varmint rifle or a combat rifle IMHO. It is a budget sporter in the truest sense of the word. Nothing wrong with that but there are reasons to move up.

The number 1 think you can do to upgrade a S&W Sport II is a better trigger. Something like the ALG QMS or ACT trigger which can be had for $50 to $69. These will improve your rifle and with a simple YouTube video anyone can install one. If I were to purchase a Sport II that would be the first thing I personally would change out. After the shooter the trigger is the most important component to good accuracy assuming everything else is in spec.

 

[Will2]

1) Sports are lots of fun, especially for the first modern sporting rifle.

2) Pricing for the IIs have been as low as $500.

3) If getting a good price is important to you, then wait for a $500-525 price, it will most likely reappear.

4) Or buy one at a reasonable price (to you) and have fun... that's what I did with no regrets.

Will

 

[cyphertext]

The Sport II is great budget rifle but there are real reasons to move to a more expensive rifle. The number one issue is that the 1/9 twist is not ideal for rounds weighing more than 75 grs. Many people's match ammo of choice is 77 grs and the 1/9 twist will not always work in these barrels.

The vast majority of shooters are going to shoot either 55 gr or 62 gr ammo. The 77 gr ammo that you speak of is a specialty round suited to longer range shooting, and is expensive when compared to the M193 and M855 type rounds available.

Also when you step up in rifles you get better QC, higher quality components, better fitting, longer lasting and more accurate rifles dedicated to more specific tasks. The Sport II is a great plinker but it is not a dedicated varmint rifle or a combat rifle IMHO. It is a budget sporter in the truest sense of the word. Nothing wrong with that but there are reasons to move up.

If you move up the Smith line, you are getting the same level of quality control. You are also getting the same bolt, bolt carrier, and buffer (the heart of the rifle). True, you may get more quality control for more money from other manufacturers, but I'm not convinced that the increased QC is equal to the increased cost... only the buyer can decide that for themselves.

And you are correct that the Sport is not a dedicated varmint rifle. In most circles, a dedicated varmint gun would be a bolt action rifle. But the Sport with a 1:9 twist is quite capable to filling the role for hunting prairie dogs up to hogs quite nicely... 40 gr to 69 gr rounds should be no problem.

Battle rifle? Certainly is suitable for a LE patrol rifle (depending upon ammo used by the department) and a homeland defense rifle. We have faced enemies with a lot lesser rifles than the Sport.

 

[Whitwabit]

Thanks for the suggestions ..

Let me add that I am not exactly a newbe in shooting a rifle as I was good enough to make a base rifle club while in the Air Force so have shot rifles with open sights before .. but that was many moons ago and haven't kept up with shooting rifles ..

Not planning on loading it down with accessories to start with and am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price .. Model 10202 are going for around 650 to 700 from what I am seeing right now .. GB has them for 649 today .. will see what kind of deal my LGS will make me .. they have a variety of different makes of AR 15's ..

 

[WVSig]

The vast majority of shooters are going to shoot either 55 gr or 62 gr ammo. The 77 gr ammo that you speak of is a specialty round suited to longer range shooting, and is expensive when compared to the M193 and M855 type rounds available.

Yup that is true but that is not really a rebuttal of my point. My point is that there are things that 1/9 twist rifles like the Sport II are not good at and that if you are looking to shoot longer ranges which a 16" rifle is more than capable of the 1/9 twist will be a limiter. You are reinforcing my point that the Sport II is a basic entry level rifle geared toward people who are basically plinking.

If you move up the Smith line, you are getting the same level of quality control. You are also getting the same bolt, bolt carrier, and buffer (the heart of the rifle). True, you may get more quality control for more money from other manufacturers, but I'm not convinced that the increased QC is equal to the increased cost... only the buyer can decide that for themselves.

And you are correct that the Sport is not a dedicated varmint rifle. In most circles, a dedicated varmint gun would be a bolt action rifle. But the Sport with a 1:9 twist is quite capable to filling the role for hunting prairie dogs up to hogs quite nicely... 40 gr to 69 gr rounds should be no problem.

Battle rifle? Certainly is suitable for a LE patrol rifle (depending upon ammo used by the department) and a homeland defense rifle. We have faced enemies with a lot lesser rifles than the Sport.

I am not talking about the Smith line when I am talking about upgrading. I am speaking about people who have been in the AR15 game a lot longer than S&W. To be honest I consider all of the S&W AR15s to be entry to mid-level. Even the M&P15X Rifle is not anywhere near high end. The Model M&P15 VTAC II Viking Tactic is getting into the mid range but for the price you are not getting as much as you can from other vendors. At a realistic street price of about $1500 is leaves a lot to be desired.

I am one to believe that superior parts and superior QC leads to superior results but like in so many things there is a point of diminishing returns. In the AR15 world you are paying a lot for small differences that may or may not matter to you. I just look at S&Ws AR15s realistically. They are guns which are built to meet a price point and leverage the S&W name in an area they have not traditionally been players in. They have done a great job meeting the starter AR15 price point but they have not made much headway beyond that. IMHO YMMV. This is not to say they are not good rifles. They are I recommend them often with the proper context.

I never claimed that the Sport II was a dedicated varmint gun but the OP mentioned its possible use as one and I was pointing out its possible limitations. My post was really addressing CJ's post. CJ stated he did not see a reason for upgrading from a Sport II and I was giving reasons one might.
Your reply without that context seems misplaced a bit to me. It takes my points out of context and presents it like I am bashing or being unrealistic about the Sport II.

As for a duty or hard use rifle the Sport II would not be my first choice and personally I would be disappointed if I was issued one. It would certainly not be my first choice for a go to home defense rifle but I did not have the means to purchase something else it would be OK. Again just not my first choice. I hope people do not take this as a negative comment about these rifles. It is just one mans opinion.

 

[WVSig]

Thanks for the suggestions ..

Let me add that I am not exactly a newbe in shooting a rifle as I was good enough to make a base rifle club while in the Air Force so have shot rifles with open sights before .. but that was many moons ago and haven't kept up with shooting rifles ..

Not planning on loading it down with accessories to start with and am not in a big rush to acquire one so will look for a good price and would like to buy locally if I can find a decent price .. Model 10202 are going for around 650 to 700 from what I am seeing right now .. GB has them for 649 today .. will see what kind of deal my LGS will make me .. they have a variety of different makes of AR 15's ..

That is about $125-$150 more than they should be. 2 weeks ago you could get one from KY Gun Co for $499+shipping+ transfer which would put you OTD around $530-$550 depending what you pay for transfers. I would wait.

Is your heart set on a Sport II or are you looking at them due to the S&W nameplate and price point?

 

[jagular]

Like others have said, there is only one sport II with a couple complaint versions. Get the one that you need for your state. If you can find them now for around $600 buy it. That is normal retail without it being on sale. If there is a run on guns now due to the shooting, it may take awhile for things to calm down. Look at how long it took after the sandy hook shooting. If there happens to be another mass shooting there will definitely be another gun run that will extend into the next year. Buy now if you can. Saving a $100 isn't worth the piece of mind of potentially not getting one at all in their near future or before a ban.

I ordered a BCM bcg the night after the shooting just in case there was a run. Lowers and bcg's were the hardest components to get after sandy hook.

 

[DocB]

I already had the Colt M4 SOCOM when I picked up the Sport about a year ago. I remembered how cheap they were before the shootings at Sandy Hook so figured I might better get one. Took it out and fired some at 100 yards. Shot good to me. So, I loaded it up and threw it under the bed. It's for when the zombies gather in my back yard; and, I imagine it will do just fine.

 

[Luxy54]

No major flaws/ weaknesses with this rifle, as far as I can tell. It's a production built, entry level AR, not a custom manufactured and assembled gun. It'll be fine and more than adequate, IMO, for range shooting, occasional varmint hunting and HD. If you want something more there are plenty of options out there but they cost a little, to a whole lot more. If you want a rifle as close as possible (for the civilian world) to what the military uses (MILSPEC) then it's Colt (6920) or FN. Can't go wrong, again IMO, with the Sport 2 with a lifetime S&W warranty. Buy the Sport 2 and have fun. Don't forget to buy extra mag's!

Oh, and over the useful life of the rifle you'll typically end up spending way more on ammo so the cost of the gun will be somewhat inconsequential.

 

[soonerwink]

Need some help and a lot of info .. With the happenings of the past 6 months I feel a need to invest in an AR type of rifle .. I know nothing about them .. Have been a pistol shooter all my life and have done some bird shooting .. but no rifles in my collection ..

Have decided on a S&W Sport II .. but which model ?? maybe looking to start at model 10202

So what model of the S&W Sport II do I really want ?? Looked on Buds and there must be 10 or more different set ups .. $600 to $1000 would be my price range with all the accessories I would need added to the initial price of the rifle ..

Will use the rifle for target practice mainly .. The range I belong to has a 100/200/300 yard range plus another 100 yard range too .. so target practice out that far and maybe an occasional coyote hunt .. and maybe a future hog hunt in Texas if I can talk my niece's husband to set one up for us ..

Would maybe a red dot of some kind or is a varmint scope a better set up ?? What accessories will I need

Appreciate all the help I can get !!

What you need to know? Buy several extra magazines and a bunch of ammo, and enjoy.

 

[cyphertext]

Yup that is true but that is not really a rebuttal of my point. My point is that there are things that 1/9 twist rifles like the Sport II are not good at and that if you are looking to shoot longer ranges which a 16" rifle is more than capable of the 1/9 twist will be a limiter. You are reinforcing my point that the Sport II is a basic entry level rifle geared toward people who are basically plinking.

No, I am not reinforcing your point that the Sport II is for "plinking"... detecting a lot of arrogance from that post. Different twist rates perform certain tasks better. The OP did not mention long range shooting in his use, but he did mention varmint hunting... and a slower twist rate is better for the smaller grain rounds. If he never plans to shoot his AR at 600 yards from a bench, then the 1:7 twist is not needed. Buy the rifle with the features that you will use, not because of what the military uses, or what some random stranger on the internet says.

I am not talking about the Smith line when I am talking about upgrading. I am speaking about people who have been in the AR15 game a lot longer than S&W. To be honest I consider all of the S&W AR15s to be entry to mid-level. Even the M&P15X Rifle is not anywhere near high end. The Model M&P15 VTAC II Viking Tactic is getting into the mid range but for the price you are not getting as much as you can from other vendors. At a realistic street price of about $1500 is leaves a lot to be desired.

I have S&W, CMMG, and BCM ARs... The BCM cost almost twice as much as what a Sport could be had for, but I guarantee it is not twice the rifle. I honestly have seen very little difference in performance between the two in my use. If you blindfolded me and had me shoot all three, I would only be able to tell the difference because of the different handguards.

I am one to believe that superior parts and superior QC leads to superior results but like in so many things there is a point of diminishing returns. In the AR15 world you are paying a lot for small differences that may or may not matter to you. I just look at S&Ws AR15s realistically. They are guns which are built to meet a price point and leverage the S&W name in an area they have not traditionally been players in. They have done a great job meeting the starter AR15 price point but they have not made much headway beyond that. IMHO YMMV. This is not to say they are not good rifles. They are I recommend them often with the proper context.

See statement above regarding various brands I own...

I never claimed that the Sport II was a dedicated varmint gun but the OP mentioned its possible use as one and I was pointing out its possible limitations. My post was really addressing CJ's post. CJ stated he did not see a reason for upgrading from a Sport II and I was giving reasons one might.
Your reply without that context seems misplaced a bit to me. It takes my points out of context and presents it like I am bashing or being unrealistic about the Sport II.

You presented the 1:9 twist as a limitation of the Sport II's use as a varmint gun. Many varmint guns have an even slower rate than the Sport. The twist rate is not a limiting factor for varmint hunting what so ever. I don't know anyone who uses expensive, 77 gr rounds for varmint hunting. Hell, I use the cheapest 62 gr ammo I can get for pig eradication. Do you even hunt bro?

As for a duty or hard use rifle the Sport II would not be my first choice and personally I would be disappointed if I was issued one. It would certainly not be my first choice for a go to home defense rifle but I did not have the means to purchase something else it would be OK. Again just not my first choice. I hope people do not take this as a negative comment about these rifles. It is just one mans opinion.

Again, I don't see duty use or hard use listed in the OP's requirements. I wouldn't have an issue using a Sport II for a LE carbine. Hornady makes plenty of TAP ammo in 55 - 70 gr for LE use that will work fine with a 1:9 twist.

I certainly wouldn't have an issue using it for HD either. Home and hearth have been protected by less for years. The notion that somehow a Sport, or Ruger AR-556, or any other lower cost rifle is not up for a HD role is ridiculous. If you have $1500 to spend, which is better... $500 Sport, $500 rounds of ammo, and a training class, or a $1500 boutique rifle. I'll take the Sport and training, thank you.

 

[Backlighting]

If I ever want an AR it definitely won't be in the .223 chambering.
I'd go with a .308...greater range & significantly more power.

 

[WVSig]

No, I am not reinforcing your point that the Sport II is for "plinking"... detecting a lot of arrogance from that post. Different twist rates perform certain tasks better. The OP did not mention long range shooting in his use, but he did mention varmint hunting... and a slower twist rate is better for the smaller grain rounds. If he never plans to shoot his AR at 600 yards from a bench, then the 1:7 twist is not needed. Buy the rifle with the features that you will use, not because of what the military uses, or what some random stranger on the internet says.

Like I said IMHO YMMV. You seem to like to argue for the Sport II as the catch all answer to every AR15 problem. Clearly you like it. I think it is a great starter AR15 but honestly I can buy and upper and a lower from 10 different places for less and assemble a better rifle. Again IMHO. There is no need to call me arrogant. That is an ad homiem which only serves to distract from the actually statements I have made. You misrepresent what I have said in an attmept to prove you point.

I have S&W, CMMG, and BCM ARs... The BCM cost almost twice as much as what a Sport could be had for, but I guarantee it is not twice the rifle. I honestly have seen very little difference in performance between the two in my use. If you blindfolded me and had me shoot all three, I would only be able to tell the difference because of the different handguards.

I already addressed the law of diminishing returns and the subjective nature of a more expensive rifle. For you the BCM does not make sense. For others the stock will fit them better. The brake-comp will allow them to shoot faster and more accurately. Some people will like the KMR rail and the reduction in weight that it brings. Some will appreciate that the gun will be blemish free and will exhibit better fit and finish. For some that is worth $$$ for others it is not, the value is subjective.

Standing or sitting at a bench on a square range I agree the differences might not be worth it. For other it might. What if you want a 14.5" barrel? What it that is your think because of its portability is it worth more $$$$ to get that over a S&W Sport II? Clearly for you it might not be but for others it might be. Again the law of diminishing returns is in play and the subjective value of the upgrade cannot be universally applied. I cannot tell you universally that it is worth the coin but by the same token you cannot universally tell me it isn't. The difference between my logic and yours is that I have not claimed in any sense that my subjective preferences are universal.

You presented the 1:9 twist as a limitation of the Sport II's use as a varmint gun. Many varmint guns have an even slower rate than the Sport. The twist rate is not a limiting factor for varmint hunting what so ever. I don't know anyone who uses expensive, 77 gr rounds for varmint hunting. Hell, I use the cheapest 62 gr ammo I can get for pig eradication. Do you even hunt bro?

That again was not my intent. My intent was to point out that the Sport II as a varmint gun is a big compromise. I then made the point that if you want to do long range shooting the 1/9 will be a liability with 77gr and some 72-75gr ammo which is the prefer weight for long distance shooters. Who have again combined the two statements into a strawman in and attempt to discredit me when I have not made that argument. I have made 2 separate statements. Since there is confusion let me clarify.

1. The Sport II is not a dedicate varmint gun and in that role if one desires a rifle to fill that roll it might not be the best tool for the job.

2. If you want to shoot long distance with match grade accuracy beyond 500 yards the 1/9 twist of the Sport II will be a liability because most shooters looking to achieve that goal use 77gr ammo to accomplish the task.

Again, I don't see duty use or hard use listed in the OP's requirements. I wouldn't have an issue using a Sport II for a LE carbine. Hornady makes plenty of TAP ammo in 55 - 70 gr for LE use that will work fine with a 1:9 twist.

I certainly wouldn't have an issue using it for HD either. Home and hearth have been protected by less for years. The notion that somehow a Sport, or Ruger AR-556, or any other lower cost rifle is not up for a HD role is ridiculous. If you have $1500 to spend, which is better... $500 Sport, $500 rounds of ammo, and a training class, or a $1500 boutique rifle. I'll take the Sport and training, thank you.

You have 1* so if you are comfortable with the Sport II as a duty gun or a home defense gun then who am I to tell you different. I have not said that it cannot function in that role what I have said is that it would not be my choice. I even went as far as to say if that was my "issued" gun I could make it work but on my dime it would not be and it is not my first choice. Again we seem to be at a point of confusion where I have stated a subjective opinion and you have taken it as universal fact. Maybe I have not been clear enough. Maybe you just like to debate in this manner which is fine. I enjoy a good debate as long as we do not resort to logically fallacies in order to prove our points.

In the end people must make their own choices. The Sport II is IMHO a good rifle for the price point and that everyone who buys one should understand its limitations and know that there are other options. Those other options might cost more or with a little knowledge maybe even a little less but in the end the individual must decide. My replies in this thread were addressing the OPs admitted lack of knowledge about the world or AR15s and other comments directly made about the capabilties of the Sport II. Nothing more nothing less.


I firmly believe that Sport II is priced, then designed and built appeal to the plinking community. The spec sheet and the build tell the story. The Sport I took too many short cuts. Too many other "plikers" had FA and dustcovers not that anyone who is just plinking needs either.

I think you are missing my point when you keep focusing on the 1/9 twist and a varmint rifle. My issue with the Sport as a varmint rifle is not its 1/9 twist. It is its 16" barrel and its stock configuration. If you are looking to shoot beyond 300 yards it is not your best choice. Can you do it. Sure. Is it the best tool no, I agree a bolt gun is better. Is it the best AR15 for the job I would also say no. Which was my point. Your red herring, assuming my issue with the Sport II as varmint gun, does not hold up. Again my reason for bringing up varmint guns was to show why someone might "outgrow" or "need" something more than the Sport II.

 

[fyimo]

The Ar-10 in 308 is certainly a good rifle but the AR-15 in 556 is a better choice because of lots of good ammo at great prices and cheap magazines. They are a blast to shoot and they are accurate enough to meet your needs. The price of 308 ammo is nearly double the ammo cost of the 556 ammo so unless it this going to be a big game hunting rifle buy the Ar-15.

 

[Backlighting]

The Ar-10 in 308 is certainly a good rifle but the AR-15 in 556 is a better choice because of lots of good ammo at great prices and cheap magazines. They are a blast to shoot and they are accurate enough to meet your needs. The price of 308 ammo is nearly double the ammo cost of the 556 ammo so unless it this going to be a big game hunting rifle buy the Ar-15.

Agreed. But my point about range and power is certainly true.
Nice to have both chamberings but if limited to only one I go with the .308. Just my preference.