What do you think?

[Collo Rosso]

Duane is lying. Homeland security is hording it all to sell to aliens for powering worm holes. Every employee of every company that has anything to do with ammunition is sworn to secrecy or the explosive devise the CIA planted in their heads will explode.
While I'm at it let me make you a wonderful offer on a bridge I own in Brooklyn...
Notice all the new shooters? My little town has 5 indoor ranges, 3 opening within the last 2 years. Their competition nights have a year waiting list. The use to be empty local outdoor range I've been going to for 20 years is now packed. If you don't get there as they open Saturday you wait for a lane. Last year it took me a week of searching to buy 45acp dies. Last year Lee reloading was backordered on presses. Gee, can't imagine why powder would be hard to find.

 

[Moe Mentum]

If people would stop paying $40 for a brick of .22 Thunderbolts, the scalpers would stop buying them to resell...You are making them rich !

 

[RussellD]

I am seeing powder showing up more frequently and in greater variety. My best luck has been at larger gun shows. At the last gun show I attended, I stood in line to get there early. Two vendors had lots of powder. The lower priced vendor sold out of pistol powder in the first half hour of the show.

The second vendor was by no means scalping. Pistol powder was priced around $25 per pound, maybe three dollars more than the other vendor. Vendor number 2 was still selling pistol powder on the second day of the show.

Every time I visit Atlanta gun shows they have lots of powder in every flavor and color a reloader could ask for.

I can find powder a lot easier than .22 ammo. However the gun show prices have declined from $75 a brick to $55. Things are improving somewhere.

Once I started reloading for .32 Smith and Wesson Long, I quit searching for .22LR.

 

[venomballistics]

I quit on 22 years ago after I really dove deep into the 30-06 rabbit hole.
Using blue dot or 4227 in it with a cast 150 grain flat point can make for a few loads that would put most 22s in the dark, forgotten back of the safe.

8g bd and magnum priming behind a 150g makes a low pressure load at about 1300 fps. Same behind a 180 grain cast, 1150ish with a bit more pressure.
Same behind a 200g cast is a medium pressure load right in the ideal subsonic range of 1000 and 1050.
suppressed fans would have a love affair with that one.
So ... why do we need a 22?

 

[Boox]

So, the industry is right and I'm wrong? Now if you read my post, you would recall that I am not near a major city in a shall we say less than gun friendly environment, New York State. The little bitty gun shows around my area, within 50-70 miles, are generally about 40 tables, with about half of them "junk dealers", i.e. no guns, a few books some crappy imported knives, and knick knacks. Real gun show, closest is Syracuse, 140 miles one way.
As far as gun shows in the area, I have never seen more that 10 lbs of powder at any one of them, and when I have it's likely to be BC 2 in metal cans, I have never seen Bullsye, Unique, 231, or the like. For ammo, I can buy lots of tula 223, or the different grades of Bear ammo, at a premium, but I don't buy what I don't use. I got lucky at the last show and found a 3/4 box of some Hornady 185 grain plated wadcutters for less than $20 dollars. So gun shows are not a viable alternative.
As I said, if my nearby(within 50 miles) gunshops all are saying they cannot get powder, and I cannot find it on the internet readily, Where is it all going?
As to my questions for Duane, I fully expected a hoarders, scalpers kind of excuse, and yes I am somewhat skeptical mostly due to the frustration. And no I don't buy his view.
Further, I would give some creedence to his argument if powders were even somewhat available around here, but as I stated, if the gun stores can't get it, how can they sell it? The owners can't all be misleading me can they?
And just to cover my bases, I have 4 sons, all shooters in other cities around the country, Az, MD, Rochester, and Syracuse in NY. They are looking for powder also, for me. I'm sure they don't make a full time effort, but it would seem that al least one of them would hit on a pound sooner or later.
And I'm sorry if some of you think my tone was adversarial, I'm talking about my experiences and frustrations, and you do not walk in my shoes. Apologize also for the colored text, used it to show the different authors.

Boox

 

[smutt]

You need to move to a real State, NY is just a state of confusion. Where I live powder / primers etc., not a problem. Leave the anarchy of NY behind you.

 

[novalty]

Here's a flashback from last year. Primer Shortage?

Now search online vendors for primers today.

Grafs has
Large Pistol in: Remington, Federal, Sellier Bellot, Wolf, and Winchester
Small Pistol in: CCI, Remington, Magtech, Sellier Bellot, Tula, Wolf, Winchester

Insert current scenario for handgun powder.

 

[sophie]

When I look at the gunshows in our area I see some powder for sale of various brands but not to the extent any one is hoarding the powders. The retailers that handle reloading powder tell me the same thing about it just not being available. The amount of reloaders that dusted off their reloading bench and went to reloading bullets doesn't justify the shortage in my mind. The answer you got sounds like bull**** to me too. Same goes with primers.

 

[novalty]

Looks like about time to shut this thread down.

The market went crazy after the tragic incident at Sandy Hook. People flocked to gunshops and bought guns in record numbers. Ammunition disappeared from shelves with the massive influx in new gun owners. Ammunition shelves were bare, so people started buying reloading equipment--dies and other items became hard to get (I remember seeing Lee .223 die sets sell for over $100 and Redding .223 sets for over $200 probably to a new AR owner.) Primers and bullets soon thereafter disappeared from shelves, and powder followed suit. I am just a simpleton, and don't know much about manufacturing, but if I had to guess, I would say it is easier for manufacturers for get the supplies and manufacture primers--opposed to accumulate raw materials to manufacture powder. Especially when there are ammunition manufacturers ramping up production and calling for an increased demand of the same raw material.

Many on this forum, including myself, have put considerable effort into helping fellow reloaders, including many new to reloading, find the components they need. Don't believe the information that the manufacturers are telling you--that is fine, but don't come on here with a *** story and bad mouth them.

Sorry for the rant, but I am starting to get the attitude of other reloaders: that if you don't have what you need, too bad you should have planned ahead. Which is exactly the opposite reason why I created the "DAILY: In-stock Reloading Notices" thread.

Additionally I don't know why people judge small local retailers inventory as a general market indicator. Mom and pop shops are not going to order nearly as much as online vendors like: PowderValleyInc, NatchezSS, MidwayUSA. My LGS for example, says that he has to order powders that he really doesn't want, in order to get a big enough order to spread the cost of shipping and hazmat fees. For that very reason, I cannot blame them for not wanting the overhead of several pounds of powder like BMG50, 7828, US869, just to get 10 or 20 pounds of popular powder.

 

[venomballistics]

When I look at the gunshows in our area I see some powder for sale of various brands but not to the extent any one is hoarding the powders. The retailers that handle reloading powder tell me the same thing about it just not being available. The amount of reloaders that dusted off their reloading bench and went to reloading bullets doesn't justify the shortage in my mind. The answer you got sounds like bull**** to me too. Same goes with primers.

sounds like difference of perspective.
from the company perspective its raining gunpowder, and that powder is going out the door at an astonishing rate, thus his story makes perfect sense to him.
from our perspective, that story sounds like total bull.
for all that effort we should be seeing less dust, and more powder.
These production runs just are not making it to the shelf.
it must be going ... SOMEWHERE.

Duane did mention the ammo manufacturers. Remington, Winchester, Hornady and the rest ...
could it be that they are padding their inventory by tapping the distributors for powder, otherwise destined for us?
This could provide conditions that would satisfy the observations from both perspectives.
this would be the most plausible theory.

Could it be that Bloomburg started an export company.
He could afford it, and thus send all that powder to some third world warloard that the media overlooks.
That could do it too.
Ill call this the deep pocket theory.

One thing I notice on the shelves is that rifle powders seem to be doing much better than pistol ... except for one anomaly. IMR 4227. One of the things that pops up in research is what IMR means .. Improved Military RIFLE.
H4227, Ive not seen, IMR4227 .. I could probably score some today. It's a clue, that perhaps the deep pocket theory has some plausibility. it is specifically pistol powders that are the most acutely effected. 4227 just happens to be an orphan of the IMR line that is largely mislabeled

 

[RussellD]

Here's a suggestion that may help. Powder Valley announces incoming shipments on facebook. If you follow them on facebook, you can have a head start on many and order what you need early in the morning. Go in with sons and friends and place a bulk order once you see the announcement on facebook.

 

[MyDads38]

So, the industry is right and I'm wrong? Now if you read my post, you would recall that I am not near a major city in a shall we say less than gun friendly environment, New York State. The little bitty gun shows around my area, within 50-70 miles, are generally about 40 tables, with about half of them "junk dealers", i.e. no guns, a few books some crappy imported knives, and knick knacks. Real gun show, closest is Syracuse, 140 miles one way.
As far as gun shows in the area, I have never seen more that 10 lbs of powder at any one of them, and when I have it's likely to be BC 2 in metal cans, I have never seen Bullsye, Unique, 231, or the like. For ammo, I can buy lots of tula 223, or the different grades of Bear ammo, at a premium, but I don't buy what I don't use. I got lucky at the last show and found a 3/4 box of some Hornady 185 grain plated wadcutters for less than $20 dollars. So gun shows are not a viable alternative.
As I said, if my nearby(within 50 miles) gunshops all are saying they cannot get powder, and I cannot find it on the internet readily, Where is it all going?
As to my questions for Duane, I fully expected a hoarders, scalpers kind of excuse, and yes I am somewhat skeptical mostly due to the frustration. And no I don't buy his view.
Further, I would give some creedence to his argument if powders were even somewhat available around here, but as I stated, if the gun stores can't get it, how can they sell it? The owners can't all be misleading me can they?
And just to cover my bases, I have 4 sons, all shooters in other cities around the country, Az, MD, Rochester, and Syracuse in NY. They are looking for powder also, for me. I'm sure they don't make a full time effort, but it would seem that al least one of them would hit on a pound sooner or later.
And I'm sorry if some of you think my tone was adversarial, I'm talking about my experiences and frustrations, and you do not walk in my shoes. Apologize also for the colored text, used it to show the different authors.

Boox

First, I respect the lengthy response you got from your first e-mail. Once the powder leaves the manufacturer, they have no idea or control what happens to it. I do personally think it is being intercepted, in some form, after it gets to the distributors. There are 2 LGS that usually have reloading supplies that I have bought from-neither of them can seem to get any Alliant powder at all. Why? Who knows...

Now across the state line, from IN to OH, there seems to be powder available. I know this because I made a 6 hour round trip with a reloading buddy, so we could each get an 8 pound container of Bullseye and pistol primers. I hadn't seen that much powder of any kind for almost a year! Why does the powder availability stop at the IN state line? Again, who knows...

Not knowing if, or when I would ever get any more Bullseye, I started researching other powders I could use. I ended up trying Red Dot (shotgun powder) and it has worked very well for me. Once I saw that it worked, I was able to get a 4 pound container; the LGS had 3 of them, I was lucky to get the one that I did, afterwards he sold out and hasn't been able to get any more! A few months ago, the other LGS got a small shipment of powder in, I just happened to call on my lunch break from work. I was able to get some TiteGroup, 700X and CFE Pistol before it was all gone! Unfortunately they have not received any powder since, and the price of their primers has gone from $35/K ($30 on sale) to $45/K and have not been on sale since.

All of the powder being manufactured has to be going somewhere, it's just not making it to the dealers. Remember years ago when there was a "gas shortage"? Remember the footage of gas tankers emptying gas into the desert? Is our powder going up in smoke somewhere? Again, who knows? You can bet someone does!

 

[EugeneNine]

It truly is us. Gun sales and ccw permits make the news in my state due to breaking records. All those new shooters are buying ammo and when the ammo shelves go empty they do like I did and walk over to the reloading isle and buy whatever is available. I thought I'd save my brass and after I had saved it for years would start reloading, I'm talking long term like a decade from now after the kids and grown and gone plans, but I started reloading last year because I couldn't buy ammo. There are many others in the same place, either new to reloading or their stocks are going low and having to wait and hunt for whats available.

 

[alwslate]

Handgun powder is available, somewhat at least in my area. I've
bought several lbs recently at good prices. What's not available is
the most popular powders like Bullseye and W231. I haven't seen
any of either for some time. I've bought Titegroup and 700X and seen
CFE but didn't buy. Best to be flexible and buy what's available and
avoid getting fixated on one certain powder. The shortage will ease
in time and the wise will make sure they don't run out again.

 

[peterthefish]

sounds like difference of perspective.

from the company perspective its raining gunpowder, and that powder is going out the door at an astonishing rate, thus his story makes perfect sense to him.

from our perspective, that story sounds like total bull.

for all that effort we should be seeing less dust, and more powder.

These production runs just are not making it to the shelf.

it must be going ... SOMEWHERE.



Duane did mention the ammo manufacturers. Remington, Winchester, Hornady and the rest ...

could it be that they are padding their inventory by tapping the distributors for powder, otherwise destined for us?

This could provide conditions that would satisfy the observations from both perspectives.

this would be the most plausible theory.



Could it be that Bloomburg started an export company.

He could afford it, and thus send all that powder to some third world warloard that the media overlooks.

That could do it too.

Ill call this the deep pocket theory.



One thing I notice on the shelves is that rifle powders seem to be doing much better than pistol ... except for one anomaly. IMR 4227. One of the things that pops up in research is what IMR means .. Improved Military RIFLE.

H4227, Ive not seen, IMR4227 .. I could probably score some today. It's a clue, that perhaps the deep pocket theory has some plausibility. it is specifically pistol powders that are the most acutely effected. 4227 just happens to be an orphan of the IMR line that is largely mislabeled

Sounds legit.

/Sigh.

 

[peterthefish]

So, the industry is right and I'm wrong?

Boox

Is this a serious question? You're really questioning whether those employed in the powder manufacturing industry, who have relationships with distributors and upstream suppliers, who work with folks intimately familiar with the impact large changes in consumer behavior have on supply chains, are right, and you, a retired (?) in upstate NY could actually be wrong?

You're really not sure about that? Let me clear it up. You're wrong. You are totally outside an area where you have expertise, and so you're doing what humans do. You're inventing reasons for the current situation that you can comprehend and that you think are plausible. Like how people used to dance for the rain. Because once, someone danced a certain way and then it rained.

But dancing doesn't bring rain, and a basic understanding of economics and supply chains explains the current situation (look up then play the MIT beer game with some buddies, but make it powder instead of beer). Add to that the severe restrictions on shipping powder like max limits on per truck powder loads and restrictions on WHO can ship Hazmat making it hard for small companies to jump in and profit off the situation, somewhat regionalizing powder availability more than is economically efficient.

And if you want some Bullseye PM me and I'll send you contact info of a local (RI) mom and pop that ships, has plenty, and reasonably priced too!

 

[chief38]

After not being able to get Bullseye I have long ago switched over to Titegroup for .38 Spl. and .357 Mag. It meters similar to Bullseye, is less case position sensitive and burns a bit cleaner too. While most powders are being scoffed up quickly, Tightgroup is available once in a while locally, although most of mine has been procured on the Net.

Bullseye is a great powder that I used for 25 years, but now feel that the Titegroup is even better.

 

[MichiganScott]

So, the industry is right and I'm wrong? Now if you read my post, you would recall that I am not near a major city in a shall we say less than gun friendly environment, New York State. The little bitty gun shows around my area, within 50-70 miles, are generally about 40 tables, with about half of them "junk dealers", i.e. no guns, a few books some crappy imported knives, and knick knacks. Real gun show, closest is Syracuse, 140 miles one way.
As far as gun shows in the area, I have never seen more that 10 lbs of powder at any one of them, and when I have it's likely to be BC 2 in metal cans, I have never seen Bullsye, Unique, 231, or the like. For ammo, I can buy lots of tula 223, or the different grades of Bear ammo, at a premium, but I don't buy what I don't use. I got lucky at the last show and found a 3/4 box of some Hornady 185 grain plated wadcutters for less than $20 dollars. So gun shows are not a viable alternative.
As I said, if my nearby(within 50 miles) gunshops all are saying they cannot get powder, and I cannot find it on the internet readily, Where is it all going?
As to my questions for Duane, I fully expected a hoarders, scalpers kind of excuse, and yes I am somewhat skeptical mostly due to the frustration. And no I don't buy his view.
Further, I would give some creedence to his argument if powders were even somewhat available around here, but as I stated, if the gun stores can't get it, how can they sell it? The owners can't all be misleading me can they?
And just to cover my bases, I have 4 sons, all shooters in other cities around the country, Az, MD, Rochester, and Syracuse in NY. They are looking for powder also, for me. I'm sure they don't make a full time effort, but it would seem that al least one of them would hit on a pound sooner or later.
And I'm sorry if some of you think my tone was adversarial, I'm talking about my experiences and frustrations, and you do not walk in my shoes. Apologize also for the colored text, used it to show the different authors.

Boox

You still have not answered my original question. If you chose not to believe Duane and the other people in the industry, why do you think there is a shortage and where do you think the powder is going?

I have my tinfoil hat on..................

 

[peterthefish]

You still have not answered my original question. If you chose not to believe Duane and the other people in the industry, why do you think there is a shortage and where do you think the powder is going?



I have my tinfoil hat on..................

Did you miss venomballistics post? He already has that covered. Pay attention man!

 

[JBnTx]

So, the industry is right and I'm wrong?

You're not wrong.