What does NIB mean to you?

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I bid on a gun described as NIB and unfired. Turns out that the box is a plain blue box. No tools or papers. The seller had a backup and told me that I didn't have to take it. I told him that I would pass. Two reasons. First, the gun isn't worth nearly as much without a real box (two piece with label or presentation box). Second, I question the honesty of the seller. The photos suck, but there is an obvious turn line. I doubt it is truly in new condition. Seller only had 1 feedback. Did I mention that I hate Gunsamerica?

What do you guys expect with a NIB unfired revolver?
 
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I bid on a gun described as NIB and unfired. Turns out that the box is a plain blue box. No tools or papers. The seller had a backup and told me that I didn't have to take it. I told him that I would pass. Two reasons. First, the gun isn't worth nearly as much without a real box (two piece with label or presentation box). Second, I question the honesty of the seller. The photos suck, but there is an obvious turn line. I doubt it is truly in new condition. Seller only had 1 feedback. Did I mention that I hate Gunsamerica?

What do you guys expect with a NIB unfired revolver?

NIB = Pristine, factory condition, unfired. Anything less is NOT truly NIB. LNIB maybe, but not NIB.

Poor photos, seller with a single feedback, an obvious turn line on a firearm advertised as NIB? Sounds like a buyer to avoid.
 
NIB = Pristine, factory condition, unfired. Anything less is NOT truly NIB. LNIB maybe, but not NIB.

Poor photos, seller with a single feedback, an obvious turn line on a firearm advertised as NIB? Sounds like a buyer to avoid.

Yep. Same guy screwed me on a 19-4 that I bought at the same time. I was the first buyer. I have an email to prove it. Seller said some other guy claimed to be the first bidder . I had already spoken to the seller on the phone about both guns. I'm betting that the other guy offered more money and the seller took it. The whole Gunsamerica thing stinks. Your purchase is not binding until the seller accepts it. Seems to me that I accepted the seller's offer by hitting the buy now.
 
This, and stories like this, are exactly why I won't buy used guns online. If I can't see them and handle them in a local shop, without putting any money out first, then I have no interest in them. Yes, I know that eliminates a lot of guns, but then I prefer new guns anyway...with some few exceptions. If I ever come across a pristine Model 27 in nickle with a 4" barrel, in a local shop, at anywhere close to a reasonable price, I will certainly buy it. (Who wouldn't?)

I have bought new guns from online sites (like Bud's, Gun Genie, and a local shop that has an online store - where you can order guns they don't have in the physical store) but never a used gun. I know lots of people do, but I don't...and that's just my preference. No criticism of those who do.
 
NIB box to me means you are buying a previously unsold gun from a licensed dealer in that brand. You are the first buyer of the gun since it left the manufacturer. Once this transaction has taken place it is no longer new to me. Think of being the second or third buyer of a "NEW" automobile. It and a firearm is only new once. I don't care if it hasn't been fired, it is no longer new.
 
Somebody is using semantics as a means to perpetrate fraud on buyers.

It takes some time, but this kind of thing can be stopped. Unscrupulous online sellers think that they are far enough removed from the buyer that they can do anything, and not pay a price.

If you're willing to do a little bit of work, they are wrong.

I made an online purchase a couple of years ago (not gun related) and did not get what I had purchased, instead getting a poor and obviously fraudulent replacement.. I contacted the seller and was polite, but let him know that I expected my money back or what I had actually bought. This was a phone call and he literally laughed.

Well, in many ways the Internet is a wonderful thing. I was able to track down where the seller was (note, this was not a legitimate business, but a guy selling out of his home. I got his home address). I contacted the local district attorney, where he lived, and explained the situation to one of the assistant DAs. Since this was in Colorado and I was in Georgia (where I could not vote in the district attorney's election each time he ran). I got the brushoff from the assistant DA. That's okay, it is sort of what I expected.

A little further research showed that the district attorney was up for reelection in 4 months. It also showed that he had strong opposition in his election. I contacted the DAs office again, pointed this out and told them that I would be more than happy to contact the fella running against the DA and hand him a campaign issue, that the DA did not care about people who committed fraud as long as the person getting screwed was not a voter locally. I got blown off again, which, again, was what I expected.

I contacted the other fellow who was running for district attorney and told him what had happened, which did not surprising. I sent documentation of what had been offered and what I actually got, along with voice recordings of the conversation with the seller, and both of the conversation with the DAs office. (I record every business phone call).

I also contacted the local Chamber of Commerce, since this was a tourist destination County. I explained to them that I had reservations 3 months in the future to spend a week at a local hotel, and offered to send them the reservation confirmation information so they would know I was not blowing smoke. I told them I intended to cancel those reservations and spend my money elsewhere, and that I was going to make sure everybody in that county knew the DA was costing that County money. I contacted the hotel, canceled my reservations, and made damn sure they knew why.

I contacted the local newspaper, and explained the entire situation to them, including that the local district attorney had just cost local businesses money because of my canceled vacation plans.

The bottom line is, the district attorney called me, apologized, and said it was just a "big misunderstanding", that he was indeed interested in the case. I told him he was a liar, and hung up on.

At the end of the day the fraudulent seller was charged with fraud, cut a plea deal, and got a two-year suspended sentence. Part of the plea deal was that he would return my money, which he did. From what I understand, he did not learn his lesson, did the same thing to another buyer who complained to the local authorities and the suspended sentence was revoked.

Incidentally, the district attorney got his butt kicked in the election. I understand that the new district attorney does a much better job...:D:D:D
 
I bid on a gun described as NIB and unfired. Turns out that the box is a plain blue box. No tools or papers. The seller had a backup and told me that I didn't have to take it. I told him that I would pass. Two reasons. First, the gun isn't worth nearly as much without a real box (two piece with label or presentation box). Second, I question the honesty of the seller. The photos suck, but there is an obvious turn line. I doubt it is truly in new condition. Seller only had 1 feedback. Did I mention that I hate Gunsamerica?

What do you guys expect with a NIB unfired revolver?

Sorry to read of your problem. Without doubt the seller has been less than forthcoming. You are entirely within your rights to refuse to complete the purchase. The seller has acte
d dishonestly. He has no reason to expect to be treated as anything other than a dishonest man.

What does NIB mean? NIB. Specifically it means a new unfired revolver/pistol in the original factory box with all the accessories that were originally included with it. i do not expect the handgun to be unhandled. I would not expect this in a shop. I would myself hold/handle the firearm in the shop prior to purchase. It would be unreasonable to expect that no other prospective buyer would not hold/handle the handgun.
 
NIB, IDEALY/REALISTICLY?

Strictly speaking NIB would be unopened/ unhandled/ unfired/ with the original box/tools, NO scope/sights or ANYTHING added/mounted. REALISTICLY I would expect the box to be opened, (just like most LGS's) & the gun handled, but NOT FIRED. Of course if they say BOX it should be the box THAT gun came in (DUH). IF they have original tools/papers, I'm sure they would say so. I would not say to NOT buy online entirely, but be aware there are scammers out there. ALWAYS check out the sellers history (not ALWAYS 100% reliable), and get an inspection period in the agreement before picking it up at your FFL. I have bought online with no real issues, but would prefer to be able to see the gun with eyes and hands prior to purchase.
 
NIB to me means unfired. Turn lines don't count and neither do tools. Tools can be lost and turn lines can be from dry fire or just generally playing with the revolver. In your case however, all the circumstantial evidence point to this gun not really being NIB. Maybe new in that particular box?

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CAVEAT EMPTOR

I've always thought many reviews/ratings/comments, were written by the sellers. Even gun shows where you can handle the gun, but the action is zip tied shut can be worse. Some sellers may/may not remove the zip tie for you, I've spent all day taking zip ties on/off for people that never had any intention of buying in the first place, some shows don't want them removed (that's why they are there in the first place). Even a new gun can be a **** shoot & you could get a lemon.
 
NIB means exactly that - New In Box.

If he dosn't have the tools and original box it's not NIB. It's more like "firearm like new, no box/papers."

I dislike false advertising very much.

Had a customer recently that bought a higher $ firearm off of gunbroker. Firearm was advertised as factory new. Firearm came in and I immediately had to call my customer. Slide showed holster wear, the checkered front strop was beat up, scratches all over it. Seller did not mention those scratches. He knew about it and offered my customer 2 extra magazines. My customer was pretty upset and returned the firearm for a full refund.

Bottom line; if the seller (dealer) would have described the item as it truly was he still could have sold it. Perhaps for a bit less $ than as truly new. But he would have saved the hassle and negative feedback.
 
Ive seen a number of sellers describing their goods as nib or excellent and on and on,then providing rather dimly lit photos where you can only see the flaws if you're looking for them.It helps to put the verbiage out of your mind and just study the photos objectively.
 
NIB means just that, NIB in which the gun came in. Just because it is missing the papers or even the tools does not necessarily mean that it cannot be NIB. I have had some firearms that looked like they just came from the factory but I never advertise them as NIB unless I'm sure. I always put LNIB so their is no confusion.

James
 
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