What if ?

[WSmith]

Hello,
I carry a model 442. Love it for it's size and weight. A little bit better then carrying the 6906. What if, just asking ... I'm thinking another compact pistol in the distant future. Throwing around the ideal of a 40 or 45 cal. I know their not the lightest weapon around, but which one would you choose ? Have no experience with either one ? Knowing that shot placement and practice are the key and any gun will work if you have the right knowlege and skill . Is there a difference in the power between the two ?

 

[Badkarma 1]

Hello WSmith

Well your ahead of the learning curve already by stating that you know that placement I'd the key so kudos there!
I find that small .45s are usually easier to shoot than the .40s, question is though do you want a DA auto like your 6906 or a single action like the 1911, or a "Safe Action" gun like the M&P?
Hi cap or single stack?
Beings you asked though I tell you up front that I would go .45! To me there isn't a bit of difference between the .40 or the .45 to warrant the extra recoil of the .40. That said I'm perfectly comfortable with the 9mm. And my current pick of the litter would be the Colt lightweight Commander, as I haven't met a micro .45 that I really liked since Detonics went under and Star followed suit. Best Dale

 

[tacreload]

WSmith
My primary carry guns are the 442 and M&P40C depending on the weather and clothing.The .45 acp is probably the most famous fight stopper known although the .357MAG has gotta be real close.I do not feel under gunned with either of my choices,the 442 gets stuffed with+p for carry and I've come to shoot it really well at self defense distances.I have a Kmber .45acp 3-1/2 that I have carried but it is all steel and is noticeably heavier than the 40c.As you stated shot placement is first and foremost and I believe the rest is personal preference and comfort.I know that the .40 cal has achieved a good reputation as a defensive round but don't know if it will ever eclipse the .45acp.Just my opinion and there are a lot more knowledgeable people on this forum than me.That's why I like it here.

 

[oldman45]

There are so many variables in the selection of which gun, caliber and size is best that I do not feel any answer would be right.

For me, the correct caliber it is a .45acp since I have witnessed what it does when striking the human torso but I am not adverse to a .40 or a ,357 mag.

For me, the correct gun is a 1911 with 5" barrel due to recoil reduction, accuracy and pure reliability as well as safety but I could use a 4" revolver like a model 66 or 686 and feel comfortable doing so.

For me, it is a single stack 11 round magazine since I am not planning on a gunfight but rather self protection and preservation. Having 30+ rounds just mean someone is not planning on hitting their intended target. If people spent more time practicing how to shoot than how many rounds to shoot, there would be a lot less residual damage after a shooting. After 38+ yrs looking at crime and accident scenes, I have never seen a righteous self defense shooting where the good guy needed or required a reload although it does occasionally happen in law enforcement but rarely.

So there you have what is right for me. What is right for someone else may be totally different.

 

[cshoff]

Hello,
I carry a model 442. Love it for it's size and weight. A little bit better then carrying the 6906. What if, just asking ... I'm thinking another compact pistol in the distant future. Throwing around the ideal of a 40 or 45 cal. I know their not the lightest weapon around, but which one would you choose ? Have no experience with either one ? Knowing that shot placement and practice are the key and any gun will work if you have the right knowlege and skill . Is there a difference in the power between the two ?

Well, it's easy enough to look up the ballistics for both rounds if you want to know a true apples-to-apples comparison of "power". SAAMI recommends a maximum chamber pressure of 35,000 PSI for the .40 S&W, and a maximum chamber pressure of 21,000 PSI for the .45ACP.

For comparison sake, we can look at the terminal ballistics of the .40 S&W Speer Gold Dot 180 Grn. loading:

Muzzle Velocity: 1025 fps.
Velocity @ 50 Yards: 956
Muzzle Energy in Ft. Lbs.: 420
50 Yard Energy in Ft. Lbs.: 365

And the .45 ACP Speer Gold Dot 185 Grn. loading:

Muzzle Velocity: 1050 fps.
Velocity @ 50 Yards: 955
Muzzle Energy in Ft. Lbs.: 453
50 Yard Energy in Ft. Lbs.: 375

With similar weight projectiles, the two cartridges are pretty darn close in terminal ballistics. The .45 ACP bullet, of course, will have a slightly larger diameter, though the difference is probably negligible in most shooting situations.

In similarly designed guns, say a Glock 22 and a Glock 21, the recoil is nearly indistinguishable from one cartridge to the other. In addition, overall weight of the two similarly designed guns will be pretty close as well, with the .45 ACP usually weighing just slightly more. To me, where the primary difference between the two really lies is in ammunition capacity. If we again compare two similarly designed guns, the .40 S&W model will usually have the capacity to handle 2 - 3 additional rounds, standard. Using the two example guns above, the Glock 22 in .40 S&W has a standard magazine capacity of 15 rounds, whereas the model 21 in .45 ACP has a standard magazine capacity of 13 rounds.

Asking which one is "better" would kinda be like asking if vanilla or chocolate is better. It really just depends on which flavor you prefer. You'll likely find that it costs less money to practice with factory loaded .40 ammo than it does with factory loaded .45. If you're a handloader, then the cost in practice ammunition will be negligible. If you prefer to have slightly more ammunition capacity in a similar handgun platform, then the .40 warrants your consideration. If you believe the slightly larger diameter of the .45 bullet is more important than the higher ammunition capacity, then the .45 warrants more consideration. See if you can find a local range that will rent you both for an hour, shoot a box or two of ammo through each, and see which one YOU like. You're not going to go wrong with either caliber as far as defensive handguns are concerned.

 

[scooter123]

My carry choice is a 40 caliber Sig P239 because I happen to like the 40 S&W. Partly because it's a rather inexpensive caliber to practice with and I can be a bit of a miser. However, I also think that it stikes an excellent balance between velocity, penetration, and power.

As for the recoil, I also have a S&W model 620 and in comparison to the recoil of a 357 Magnum, the recoil of the 40 S&W is a popgun. While the 40 S&W does have some pop to it, I don't think it's as severe as some state. IMO recoil is more a matter of the design and mass of the gun firing it than the caliber itself.

Now, what I get with my Sig is a gun that can carry a total of 8 rounds of an effective caliber in a package that is very easy to conceal. It's also proven to be perfectly reliable with a level of accuracy that still surprizes me at times.

As for the 45ACP, it's also a very effective caliber. However it is a bit costly to practice with unless you can reload. In addition it's proven to be problematic in terms of reliability in 1911 platforms with a 3 inch barrel. The OAL is long enough that trying to achieve reliability in a short actions used with a 3 inch barrel is a bit borderline. While it can be done, it usually requires some custom tuning such as throating the chamber and finding a bullet ogive that works. Once you move up to a 4 inch barrel, reliability improves a lot but it can come at the expense of concealment ease.

PS; you might want to take a look at the P239, while it's not a featherweight and the stock grips not ideal, equipped with 20 dollar Hogue Rubbber Combat grips it's a shootin machine. Of all my semi's, it's my favorite one to shoot, which means I get a lot of practice with it.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I know that this is the S&W Forum and all, but I have to admit that my usual carry weapon is a Kimber Custom CDP .45.

For occasional use, especially during very hot weather when I can't tolerate any more clothing than absolutely necessary, I like my Kahr P40, polymer frame 16.1 oz. .40 S&W. About the same overall size as the 2" J-frames, but flat and smooth, disappears comfortably under a golf shirt. Very easy to shoot well, very accurate, and 100% reliable. Recoil is stiff but controllable.

Accuracy (including POI at POA) and reliability; these are the gold standards for me. Being an old fart, comfort is a high priority also, and that is what a good holster is all about.