What is it with Blue Dot?

[Qc Pistolero]

After so many years into reloading(1978),I am at last ready to try Blue Dot in my Magnum calibers.Seems to deliver good velocity for relatively few grains used while keeping the pressure at a forgiving pressure(more than Unique at these levels).

But now,I read that a warning has been issued not to use it for .41 Mag and 125gr .357Mag loads!I was looking to it for .44 Mag loads(with light 215gr. bullets) and,you guessed it,.41 Mag load.

Anyone connected with the Gods of reloading who could shed some light about all that ruckus 'cause if the manufacturer says it's not safe in .41 Mag,how the heck come it is safe in a .44 Mag.After all,they do share lots of similarities(ratio between combustion chamber size to caliber;ratio of pressure building behind bullet of the same SD,etc. etc.).
Qc Pistolero

 

[SMSgt]

That warning is years old. I used BD in my .41 for a long time without issue, but apparently the maker found it had pressure spikes under certain conditions. I guess the cold in AK didn't cause problems. I thought its performance was outstanding.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I've never had a problem using BD in any loads of 357,41,or 44.
Lawyers don't make good load manual's I think....

 

[Doubless]

I always felt BD was twitchy at the upper end of the load range, and to me there is not enough justification for risking a fine revolver on such a powder when there are others that will do the same thing without the potential for an "energetic disassembly"!

 

[iouri]

Most recent manual from Alliant does have recipe for 110gr. 140 and up for 357 Mag but not for 125 (no recipes for 41 at all with Blue Dot). I wonder what did they find in pressure picture that made them come up with that statement. Having said that I'm using BD in 7.62x25 Tok, 357 Sig with great results.

 

[6string]

I've never gotten along with Blue Dot. Back when it was made by Hercules, I went from Bullseye, to Unique to 2400 in that order from fast to slow. Blue Dot never gave me the accuracy of the other three and seemed erratic. If I couldn't get what I wanted from those three, I went with one of the DuPont powders, usually.
But, I know what you mean: it looks promising in the manuals.

Best Regards,
Jim

 

[arjay]

I have a vague memory of loads that were fine in summer temps,but pressures would spike in cold weather.Ive got 1/2lb that's been sitting on the shelf for 20 years.

 

[muddocktor]

I've had great results with BD in 357 Mag in the past and aslo have used it with light bullet 44 Mag with great results. I decided to try it back in the 80's because I found that 2400 ran dirty in my 27-2 and the BD loads listed in my books back then used less powder, lessening my costs. And I found it to be real accurate and clean in my 27-2 and was my go-to 357 powder for a long time. I've never found it to be overly twitchy on the high end, unlike some folks say they have experienced. The main reason I have migrated away from it is that there are other powders such as Accurate #9 that meter much better for me than BD.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I use it regularly in 10mm with cast bullets.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

That warning is years old. I used BD in my .41 for a long time without issue, but apparently the maker found it had pressure spikes under certain conditions. I guess the cold in AK didn't cause problems. I thought its performance was outstanding.

Happy to hear this.I hope the cold in Qc is about the same as in AK.Think I'll get me a 4# of BD and shoot it in the wintertime!
Qc Pistolero

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I've never gotten along with Blue Dot. Back when it was made by Hercules, I went from Bullseye, to Unique to 2400 in that order from fast to slow. Blue Dot never gave me the accuracy of the other three and seemed erratic. If I couldn't get what I wanted from those three, I went with one of the DuPont powders, usually.
But, I know what you mean: it looks promising in the manuals.

Best Regards,
Jim

I understand what you mean Jim.I started reloading in '78(1978...not 1878 I know I'm old but not that much!!!)and had just recently tried one of the Dot family(Red Dot since Bullseye had not been available for quite a while during the Great Powder Darkness)and I really liked it's performance.I remembered reading lots of articles(before the web was even born)about what a good performance Blue Dot would give for a relatively small amount used.
I guess I only want to verify what is all the bugaboo about Blue Dot.Like you said,in the manuals,it sure looks promising.


Qc Pistolero

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I have a vague memory of loads that were fine in summer temps,but pressures would spike in cold weather.Ive got 1/2lb that's been sitting on the shelf for 20 years.

Cold weather!You got me scared here Arjay!Up here,we spell it COLD!
Qc Pistolero

 

[TAROMAN]

Never cared for BD in 44 Magnum.
For me, it really performs in 357 Sig full power (or nearly so) loads.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I've had great results with BD in 357 Mag in the past and aslo have used it with light bullet 44 Mag with great results. I decided to try it back in the 80's because I found that 2400 ran dirty in my 27-2 and the BD loads listed in my books back then used less powder, lessening my costs. And I found it to be real accurate and clean in my 27-2 and was my go-to 357 powder for a long time. I've never found it to be overly twitchy on the high end, unlike some folks say they have experienced. The main reason I have migrated away from it is that there are other powders such as Accurate #9 that meter much better for me than BD.

Now Muddoktor,that the second time you straighten me out with Accurate#9.I'm hardheaded but you might just convince me if you keep pounding hard enough on my nailhard head!
Thanks!
Qc Pistolero

 

[andyo5]

I have a vague memory of loads that were fine in summer temps,but pressures would spike in cold weather.Ive got 1/2lb that's been sitting on the shelf for 20 years.

That has been my experience as well.

 

[Rule3]

Blue Dot is Flaming Dirt! It only works well at near or max loads.

With so many better powders out there why even bother with it? There are many magnum powders that work better.

It is erratic/spiky pressure and leaves unburned "dots"

The Alliant warning has been out for years, they would not post it without a reason.

But of course there are those that know better than Alliant and use it anyway.
People still drive without seat belts or let their kids bounce around in the car until they get caught.

The actual warning:

Safety Notice

At Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.
Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.
During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

• Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
• Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).

Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.
We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

 

[Sevens]

^Fine post and proper argument. I will add that the two opposing forces are:

One side is usually going to be old guys who get used to doing things a certain way and simply go entirely blind to progress ("gee, that's how I always dun it...")

and the opposing force is a laboratory loaded with equipment and trained, paid professionals who do their level best to try EVERY silly little thing that some yutz like me or you might try... so they do it first and have the ability to accurately measure the (in this case) erratic results, all for the purpose of trying to keep -US- from having some unfortunate event.

It's really NOT because they are lawyers. For crying out loud, they are making smokeless powder to sell to us so we can build cartridges that bounce off 65k PSI. They aren't lawyers, they aren't chicken, they sure aren't stupid and they actually have the ability to test things that you cannot simply by the "feel" of snappy recoil and glancing at a spent primer.

And their equipment and techniques continually get BETTER and that's why you see published data and warnings evolve.

I think life is better experienced with less chip on the shoulder. If you love Blue Dot and you want to stick with it, terrific. You can absolutely stick with the mainstream powder of the 70's/80's and you can rock out with 8-tracks while you do it. In fact -- that's actually pretty cool.

But there's no need and no productivity on slagging the manufacturers and the labs and professionals that not only make this stuff for us... but also put a lot of care in publishing great test results that allow us some terrific shortcuts in USING it.

 

[fredj338]

Never bought into the BD pressure thing with certain calibers. Its ok for 357sig & 125 but not 357mag? Its ok for 10mm & 200gr but not 41mag & 210? Some test engineer had a pressure spike once & the lawyers came out. I have no dof on this fight, not a huge fan of BD, but while powders can do diff things in diff bore sizes, there are too many oddities with their choices of no go calibers.

 

[muddocktor]

Now Muddoktor,that the second time you straighten me out with Accurate#9.I'm hardheaded but you might just convince me if you keep pounding hard enough on my nailhard head!
Thanks!
Qc Pistolero

I first tried Accurate #9 back in the mid 90's, mainly because they had a great price point on it and my loading books had data with it in 357 and 44. And once I tried it out I really liked it. It's a fine grain spherical and meters well in my old Lyman 55 measure. Plus, it has flash suppressant in it so it doesn't make the big flaming balls of fire like 296/H-110 or 2400 or even Blue Dot. The biggest problem I have with Western's powders now is that I have to drive close to a 150 miles round trip to pick up any locally. So I order it online.

 

[Wee Hooker]

Ah, my favorite powder for making reduced loads in .223. Really versatile and safe in that application