"Snappy recoil from the .40." I've read this entire thread and I read that previous statement numerous time. I'm not a big fan of the .40, as I haven't done a whole lot of shooting with it. I do own three .40s, as during the last great ammo crunch, that was the only premium ammo I could find. That said, I have the three guns due to that experience. What I have found with the .40 is that the only guns that seem to have a "snappy recoil" are the Glocks. I'm not a fan of the Glock grip shape, and that seems to play a large part in the snap of the recoil. That too, being said, I find that my three .40s are all more comfortable shooters than the Glock versions. This includes my XD, Sig P239, and Shield. Yes, even the Shield is a more comfortable shooter in .40 than the any Glock to me. I think that the caliber is a good one, but I believe the handgun platform can be improved upon if qualification scores need to be brought to a higher level of proficiency without changing calibers. I really don't want to badmouth Glocks, as they're good, dependable weapons, certainly up to the task. The only Glock grip shape that I like is that of the G-36, a semi-single stack. As I get older, I find that just about any single stack is a much more comfortable handgun for me to shoot. I don't carry a .40 on a daily basis, but I would if ammo availability dictates.
What is wrong with the .40
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My Beretta 96 is the most accurate weapon I carry and the most comfortable after I changed to a 16lbs. recoil spring. A spring maker told me the 14lbs. recoil spring was standard in the 96. Empties were landing around 20 to 25 feet behind me????(can you say UNDERSPRUNG)! Once I switched the recoil spring out. The empties are about 4 to 6 feet to my right. and the target has holes touching. My issued G22 kicked harder then my SA V-10(Ultra-Compact .45ACP) with 230Grn. +P. I'm done with 1911's after 10 years.
The 40 is effective and great in my book. The FBI also stated, The .9mm is easier to hit a vital area with the less recoiling round and the number of rounds at a agents their disposal.(ie...control, aim, place rounds were they need to go), not gut shoot some one and expect a "one-shot-stop"???
The 40 is effective and great in my book. The FBI also stated, The .9mm is easier to hit a vital area with the less recoiling round and the number of rounds at a agents their disposal.(ie...control, aim, place rounds were they need to go), not gut shoot some one and expect a "one-shot-stop"???
Wee Hooker
Member
The biggest problem with the 40 is that it's case is sized right between the 45 and 9mm. So much so that 40 brass routinely gets stuck in 45acp range brass and 9mm in turn gets stuck in the 40 cases. This reeks havoc in the reloading process. If you reload, it will have you cursing the existence of the 40 S&W routinely.
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Wee Hooker
Member
BTW, admittedly I never had any love for the caliber myself until I bought a Sig Traditional Match Elite 1911 chambered in 40S&W. This excellent pistol, combined with "non-snappy" reloads, has me hopelessly in lust.
jtcarm
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IDK, near as I can tell, they rule USPSA limited. Makes major with more capacity than the .45.
There's tons of LEO trade-in .40s available for under $350 right now, so I'd say you can't go too far wrong.
I have a Glock-22 en-route that will be the basis for a USPSA limited gun.
There's tons of LEO trade-in .40s available for under $350 right now, so I'd say you can't go too far wrong.
I have a Glock-22 en-route that will be the basis for a USPSA limited gun.
mrchuck
Member
Why was the .40sw cartridge adopted and made??
Back in the 1990's, our own FBI had a "shoot-out" in Miami, Florida.
From my memory of it, it was between FBI agents and some Latino drug dealers.
Several Agents were killed, believe their were 2 Female agents.
Our FBI was mandated to only use the 9mm Luger cartridge.
The later investigation and analysis dictated that our FBI was "under-gunned",,and changes are forthcoming.
So,,, the Ammo companies came up with the 10mm pistol cartridge. However,, this cartridge was just TOO powerful for a Female agent to qualify with! Thats right,,, just too much recoil.
Politics.
Sooo,,,back to the drawing board,,,, and Smith & Wesson then developed a shorter case of the existing 10mm cartridge and
"what do you know",,,,the 40 SW cartridge was born.
But you can't call it a 10mm because their is already a cartridge called this! They thought about calling it a 10mm short, but this was voted down.
The diameter of the bullet is the same, .40 caliber.
If you get the chance to fire a 10mm pistol, do so!!!
You will then understand what all this was about.
Now days, the 9mm Luger cartridge and bullet is much much improved with better hollow points and powder, that it now is really powerful and has not only the US Army business, but mine too.
Why you ask? Well, I was issued a Kel-Tec P-40 to carry off-duty, and as a back-up in a Full Duty uniform.
A hand cannon it is, and now as a "retired" LEO, I only carry a 9mm Kel-Tec.
The 40 cal is just too much recoil. IT REALLY RECOILS !
BUT,,,as a house protection pistol, YES, that is what it does now. A Smith & Wesson 4043 with Crimson Trace red dot!!
The 9mm Luger cartridge will thrive from now on as a carry!
Back in the 1990's, our own FBI had a "shoot-out" in Miami, Florida.
From my memory of it, it was between FBI agents and some Latino drug dealers.
Several Agents were killed, believe their were 2 Female agents.
Our FBI was mandated to only use the 9mm Luger cartridge.
The later investigation and analysis dictated that our FBI was "under-gunned",,and changes are forthcoming.
So,,, the Ammo companies came up with the 10mm pistol cartridge. However,, this cartridge was just TOO powerful for a Female agent to qualify with! Thats right,,, just too much recoil.
Politics.
Sooo,,,back to the drawing board,,,, and Smith & Wesson then developed a shorter case of the existing 10mm cartridge and
"what do you know",,,,the 40 SW cartridge was born.
But you can't call it a 10mm because their is already a cartridge called this! They thought about calling it a 10mm short, but this was voted down.
The diameter of the bullet is the same, .40 caliber.
If you get the chance to fire a 10mm pistol, do so!!!
You will then understand what all this was about.
Now days, the 9mm Luger cartridge and bullet is much much improved with better hollow points and powder, that it now is really powerful and has not only the US Army business, but mine too.
Why you ask? Well, I was issued a Kel-Tec P-40 to carry off-duty, and as a back-up in a Full Duty uniform.
A hand cannon it is, and now as a "retired" LEO, I only carry a 9mm Kel-Tec.
The 40 cal is just too much recoil. IT REALLY RECOILS !
BUT,,,as a house protection pistol, YES, that is what it does now. A Smith & Wesson 4043 with Crimson Trace red dot!!
The 9mm Luger cartridge will thrive from now on as a carry!
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BigBill
Absent Comrade
Never fond of a 9mm, have them just don't like them. The 40cal never had any interest in it too. Nor the 357 SIG. I been a 45acp guy since the mid 70's. I think I read the 40 is dying off lately. I'm just to old to change now. I'm more of a magnum revolver guy. I have pistols but can take them or leave them.
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chris11111981
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Several companies are coming out with more 10mm guns. The fact that my local walmart was selling 10mm rounds last month says something
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Arik
Member
I figured that much.
Unfortunately Walmart isn't a gauge on anything. No Walmart around me sells anything gun related. Not guns, not ammo, not targets, not red dots. Close as you get is camouflage shirts of the Duck Dynasty guys. So if we are judging by Walmart then guns and ammo don't exist
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Dales396lt4
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I was a fan of the 41AE back in the day in my IMI Jericho 941 that I bought in 1986 (oversea) this gun has always been my go to hand gun over the years. As everyone know the 41AE is no longer around, so I shoot it in 9mm today. I have tried the .40S&W many times over the years and just have not found the gun that does it for me. It just comes down to what you like, I love my 1911 in 9mm and I shoot it well.
BearBio
Member
I couldn't find where I've posted , so here goes. I went from a 38 Super Commander to a G26 to a G27. I liked the 40 (I previously had a 3rd Generation S & W). However, I walked into a deal on a 357 Sig barrel and switched my G22 over. Much more accurate, so I switched the G27 over. My 40 S & W groups were acceptable (about 3" rapid fire at 7-10 yards) but the 357 Sig were much better (~ 1" at the same distance, if I did my part). I carry the 357 barrel but wouldn't feel compromised with the 40 cal either.
As a former police firearms trainer and armorer, maybe I can comment on some aspects of the .40 which make it less attractive than it was when introduced in 1990. There is really nothing wrong with it except:
1. Police and FBI recruits are easier to get qualified with a 9mm versus the .40. Two-thirds of American cops carry Glocks, and the .40 Glocks are much more challenging to shoot well for new people than are the same guns in 9mm. 9mm ammunition has improved so much in the last decade that there is very little reason to opt for the .40 for recruits anymore. The .40 does have a "snappy" character to its recoil that some new shooters find disconcerting. It can be mastered, but requires a bit more commitment than most recruits have anymore. How the .40 feels in hand can be changed simply by buying a different type of ammunition. In my experience, the 180 grainers feel the mildest (but with more flip), the 165 grainers are in the middle, and the 155 grain loads are nasty numbers that you feel in your teeth when you fire them, but move out of the gun very fast. Your choice.
2. People say that the .40 is harder on guns, accelerating wear and parts breakage. Having maintained .40 issued weapons, this is partially true. However, that seems to be more of a function of whether or not the gun started life as a .40 by design, or was modified from 9mm. The .40, in my experience, is especially hard on Glocks of older vintage. I do not note this accelerated wear or breakage on M&P's.
3. Many whine about the additional expense of shooting the .40 versus the 9mm. While this may be true for some, if I compare ammunition of equivalent quality, brand for brand, I find that I am paying $1-2 more per box for .40. This will not make or break me. I have also located a source for LE contract overrun .40 caliber ammo which is top quality and is running me less per case than most 9mm.
4. I had sworn off the .40 until recently, saying that I just didn't "need one", owning many 9mm and .45 acp guns. But then I was offered a brand new M&P Compact with 3 magazines and night sights at a price that I could just not turn down, getting me back into the caliber. I'm having a great deal of fun with it, carry it regularly, have an additional barrel (because I still like to play with .357 SIG) and like it so well that I bought a 9mm version of the same gun for my new students to shoot.
So my bottom line is, if you want a .40, buy one and take advantage of the cheaper pricing available these days. Having been the top caliber in American law enforcement for over 20 years, I think there is zero chance it will go away in our lifetimes.
1. Police and FBI recruits are easier to get qualified with a 9mm versus the .40. Two-thirds of American cops carry Glocks, and the .40 Glocks are much more challenging to shoot well for new people than are the same guns in 9mm. 9mm ammunition has improved so much in the last decade that there is very little reason to opt for the .40 for recruits anymore. The .40 does have a "snappy" character to its recoil that some new shooters find disconcerting. It can be mastered, but requires a bit more commitment than most recruits have anymore. How the .40 feels in hand can be changed simply by buying a different type of ammunition. In my experience, the 180 grainers feel the mildest (but with more flip), the 165 grainers are in the middle, and the 155 grain loads are nasty numbers that you feel in your teeth when you fire them, but move out of the gun very fast. Your choice.
2. People say that the .40 is harder on guns, accelerating wear and parts breakage. Having maintained .40 issued weapons, this is partially true. However, that seems to be more of a function of whether or not the gun started life as a .40 by design, or was modified from 9mm. The .40, in my experience, is especially hard on Glocks of older vintage. I do not note this accelerated wear or breakage on M&P's.
3. Many whine about the additional expense of shooting the .40 versus the 9mm. While this may be true for some, if I compare ammunition of equivalent quality, brand for brand, I find that I am paying $1-2 more per box for .40. This will not make or break me. I have also located a source for LE contract overrun .40 caliber ammo which is top quality and is running me less per case than most 9mm.
4. I had sworn off the .40 until recently, saying that I just didn't "need one", owning many 9mm and .45 acp guns. But then I was offered a brand new M&P Compact with 3 magazines and night sights at a price that I could just not turn down, getting me back into the caliber. I'm having a great deal of fun with it, carry it regularly, have an additional barrel (because I still like to play with .357 SIG) and like it so well that I bought a 9mm version of the same gun for my new students to shoot.
So my bottom line is, if you want a .40, buy one and take advantage of the cheaper pricing available these days. Having been the top caliber in American law enforcement for over 20 years, I think there is zero chance it will go away in our lifetimes.
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Faulkner
Member
I don't find the .40 a snappy round, but rather, I find the 9mm wimpy. It's all in how you compare it.
As with any gun you can get used to the recoil where you don't notice anymore. So far I've shot 4 boxes (of 50) of Sig Elite 10mm 180 fmj and I don't notice the recoil anymore. At the beginning my hand was smarting.
I'm ready for the 50AE.
Anyway, I like the 40 and I sold my 9mm to get my 40 out of hock. Also some of the 40sw ammo are hot and does serious damages to the baddies.
Get some Hornady 165 FTX and tell me about it.
I'm ready for the 50AE.
Anyway, I like the 40 and I sold my 9mm to get my 40 out of hock. Also some of the 40sw ammo are hot and does serious damages to the baddies.
Get some Hornady 165 FTX and tell me about it.
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okiegtrider
Member
Well said OldCop876.
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walkin' trails
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The 40 came along at a time when there was a lot of concern and debate about the effectiveness of accepted LE handgun calibers at the time. The FBI had had a tragedy occur on their watch and found issues with the 9mm Silvertip's performance. The crowd, including the FBI, touted the 147 grain 9mm hydra Shok, but that round's real world performance wasn't that impressive. On the other side of the 9mm world was the 115 grain +P+, but that round didn't perform as consistently or as impressively in gel as it did in the real world. Then, there was the 45ACP, which came in a big package, and if in 1911 form that would fit a larger spectrum of shooters, required more training, maintenance, and armorer support than rank-in-file LEOs were going to give it. So along came the FBI's 10mm program, which put the round in a pistol frame too large for a lot of things, and not just shooters with small hands. That all occurred in the late 80s, and the FBI didn't adopt the 4O until around 98. I was in the Border Patrol Academy in 1990 when the 40 was introduced. The Patrol sort of wanted to switch to a semi auto like everyone else, but couldn't decide on anything. They had apparently evaluated the 1076, as I got to see one for the first time there.
Fast foreword thru the years. The 9mm made incredible improvements in performance (as did the 40s and 45s), but did it without the sharp recoil or battering of components as the 40 still does (the 45s still come in packages that may not fit all shooters). I still carry an issue Glock 22, but it's not my favorite shooter. My BUG & off duty are 9s. There's nothing wrong with the 40, but like the 45, it's not for everyone.
Fast foreword thru the years. The 9mm made incredible improvements in performance (as did the 40s and 45s), but did it without the sharp recoil or battering of components as the 40 still does (the 45s still come in packages that may not fit all shooters). I still carry an issue Glock 22, but it's not my favorite shooter. My BUG & off duty are 9s. There's nothing wrong with the 40, but like the 45, it's not for everyone.
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