What qualifies as a firearms dealer - again

[armadillo]

I see where Washington is going to try to take executive action to make private sellers do background checks if they sell more than a certain number of firearms.

I remember 20 years ago (about the time of the "Clinton Gun Ban" law) the media was so proud of then Secretary of the Treasury Lloyd Benson for reducing the number of licensed firearms dealers by over half. Until that time, many part time dealers got a FFL so they could sell guns and comply with the law. Then people lost their FFLs because they didn't make many sales or didn't have a full time store.

So now, occasionally selling a few old guns without a FFL is not "engaging in business."

If the government had left well enough alone back in 1994 they would already have thousands more dealers doing background checks.

 

[Beemer-mark]

The article is in the Washington Post -
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d45e56-6b63-11e5-9bfe-e59f5e244f92_story.html

Obama wants to use executive action to make any individual selling 50 firearms a years subject to the requirement of doing background checks. The left is looney on doing background checks. How will they ever figure out someone is selling (and buying?) more than 50 guns a year? I think it's just political fodder.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I cannot envision very many scenarios in which an individual would be selling 50 firearms in a single year without being a firearms dealer.

Perhaps one time in a lifetime, selling off a personal collection consisting of 50 or more firearms.

I think this is either:

A. The camel's nose trying to get into the tent; i.e.: if we can get away with 50 per year, then we'll do 40, then 30, then 20, then any at all; or

B. Political theater. More noise created to prove they are "doing something about the problem" without actually doing much of anything.

 

[TTSH]

I see where Washington is going to try to take executive action to make private sellers do background checks if they sell more than a certain number of firearms.

I remember 20 years ago (about the time of the "Clinton Gun Ban" law) the media was so proud of then Secretary of the Treasury Lloyd Benson for reducing the number of licensed firearms dealers by over half. Until that time, many part time dealers got a FFL so they could sell guns and comply with the law. Then people lost their FFLs because they didn't make many sales or didn't have a full time store.

So now, occasionally selling a few old guns without a FFL is not "engaging in business."

If the government had left well enough alone back in 1994 they would already have thousands more dealers doing background checks.

Funny isn't it? They've now come full circle. I really miss the good old days of the "kitchen table" dealers. Wouldn't it be funny if they were allowed to come back? In retirement now, I wouldn't mind being one.

 

[armadillo]

BTT since this is a hot topic to start 2016.

 

[ky wonder]

50 guns is a number I could understand, but what I am seeing is anyone selling as few as two can be prosecuted for failing to have a FFL at their discretion.

and not to mention all the hoops you have to jump through to get a license is not an easy hurdle

 

[Pointblank2U]

The fish hook is hidden in the whip cream on this one. The only way for them to enforce it would be for every gun to be registered. We know the road that will lead down.

 

[Sconnie]

The fish hook is hidden in the whip cream on this one. The only way for them to enforce it would be for every gun to be registered. We know the road that will lead down.

Exactly! Sorry, I cannot see how this could be dismissed as "political theater." It is a baby step. And then another and another and another. The money behind the movement is patient and any chip off the block is a victory. Some here on this forum have grown used to worse controls in their own States so this doesn't seem like it is so bad.

If they want to hire more FBI or ATF agents to run background checks under the current laws, fine. And if they want to hire more agents to track down and prosecute people who are ineligible to buy a firearm and fail a background check under existing laws, fine. Enforce the laws that exist.

 

[walter o]

goverment guidelines for guo dealers

this is a site to explain who is considered a dealer and needs a license
https://www.atf.gov/file/100871/download. Notice the date 2016

 

[cyphertext]

This EO really does nothing... all of this is already covered in the existing statute.

(11)
The term “dealer” means (A) any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail, (B) any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms, or (C) any person who is a pawnbroker. The term “licensed dealer” means any dealer who is licensed under the provisions of this chapter.
...
(21) The term “engaged in the business” means—
(A)
as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;
(B)
as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;
(C)
as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;
(D)
as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(B), a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms;
(E)
as applied to an importer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms imported; and
(F)
as applied to an importer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to importing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition imported.

So, to make it simple...

Sell a gun from your collection - Does not meet requirement of "being in the business"

Sell 10 guns from your collection, even for profit, on Gunbroker - Does not meet requirement of "being in the business"

Sell 10 guns on Gunbroker for profit, reinvest money for more firearms to sell on Gunbroker the following week - Meets the requirement of being in the business.

 

[Squarebutt]

I don't do Facebook, but someone on FB asked a good question this week. "Do I need an FFL to sell thousands of assault rifles to the Mexican cartels?"

 

[DWalt]

The GunsAmerica site has a pretty good treatment of their take on what the latest EA means regarding who is and is not a dealer, and protective steps to take when selling to avoid being considered a dealer.

 

[upmars1951]

Right on was saying the same thing to the boys down at the local gun shop this week.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The way I look at it, either you support background checks or you don't.

It's a losing convoluted argument to say that Joe should have to submit to a background check if he buys a gun from an FFL but it's fine if Joe doesn't submit to a background check if he buys from some guy who is selling guns from his collection or otherwise.

Terminate the NICS program.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

Registration of all guns is the real goal. That will be the
biggie. All is the key. Then as they see no let up in
crime, they can keep turning the screws. A little at a time.
Remember Saturday night specials? Always something.
Advance the ball down the field a few feet at a time.
And all they need is one more liberal on the Supreme Court and
real problems. Glad I was born in 1945 and enjoyed the
freedoms that I had.