What revolver ammo did / does your LEO use?

[8-Shot]

I'm one of the rare few that still carries a revolver. I was issued a Glock 22 .40, but after Firearms Instructor School I began carrying a 4 inch S&W Model 627 Pro Series. I am issued my choice of Remington Golden Saber 125gr or Winchester 158gr JHP. I prefer and carry the 158. It groups better for me. I have a 12 round loop loader and 2 full 8 shot moon clips.

 

[AZretired]

My first agency we were issued S&W M19s and Federal.357 Mag. 125 JHP. We later changed to the 686 and the same ammo until they switched to autos after I left. My second agency issued the 686 and Winchester .357 Mag 145 Silvertips til we switched to the 5906 9mm.

 

[baccusboy]

In 1992, after moving to another department our issue weapon was the Glock 17 and Fed. BPLE 115JHP+P+.

Bert, how did the BPLE perform for you guys? Do you happen to remember?

 

[KKECK5]

I'm an old retired Railroad Cop up in Massachusetts. When I started they tried to give me a S&W model 10, I swear it had moss growing in it, and the cylinder was falling off. Carried my own S&W model 36 till they finally issued us new Ruger Speed Six's. Not a bad firearm at the time. Still a revolver guy to this day. Back about 1972 one of our guys was stabbed by one of good citizens in front of the station. He shot the DB four times with his issued 110 grain ammo. After cuffing him we found that only one round penetrated his body. the other rounds never made it through his wool coat.. They upped the ammo shorty thereafter.

 

[johnsonl]

As a sheriff's deputy, we were issued 3" Model 65's with the FBI load, a lead hollow point. When I started at Customs, we were issued 4" CS-1's and carried Federal 125 grain JHP +P+ (yes there is such a thing, I still have a few boxes) because we weren't allowed to carry .357 ammo. This was to accommodate the less than "large handed" shooters. The 6946's came next.

 

[IAhunter]

USBP issue between 1992 and 1996 (or so) was .357 mag, 110 and 125grain JHPs by Remington and Federal. What you were issued depended upon which contract the ammo was from. Late in that time period, it was all 110 grain Remington. We were allowed to privately purchase, qualify with, and carry the 145 grain Winchester Silvertips. Some did, and the ST was and still is good ammo.

 

[Doug M.]

I started with a PODA M58 with Silvertips. Transitioned to a G17 with the ISP load (first the 115 +P+, the 127 +p+). Went to an agency that issued the 1076 (and Federal 180grain JHPs as I recall). The guns broke a lot and were replaced with 4566s with 230 grain +p Winchester Ranger. These performed ok, but also broke a lot - I now of one that died the day it was issued. I got rid of mine and went to a PODA H&K USP (had a heck of a time getting it; their idea of customer service was awful and went down from there). It ate magazine springs - never seen anything like it before or since. I transitioned to a 1911 in 2006 and carried it for 5 years, going to the issued G21 just before I retired. The ammo changed to Gold Dot 230 grain JHP in 2005 or so. The ammo was never a problem in our shootings.

 

[Old Corp]

Thank you for the account of your shooting incident. It is difficult to get first-hand accounts from valid sources.

Where did your rounds strike the suspect, and what was his
reaction? Did the lab later tell you if the bullets expanded, and to what degree?

I sometimes use .38 125 grain ammo, but it's Speer Gold Dot or the Federal 129 grain Hydra-Shok, not the Federal load you had. If penetration is an issue, I use lead HP Plus P ammo in 158 grain weight. But, I've never had to shoot anyone, thank goodness.

I prefer .357 ammo when outdoors and not in a crowded setting, but load .38's for home defense and in .38-only guns. My M-66 -3 is my favorite revolver, I suspect. I certainly understand your affection for your M-66! It saved your life that time!

Texas Star - yes, I did get to see and examine the recovered bullets several years later, as they were still in Evidence. All showed near-perfect expansion, with only one partially fragmented. That was the one that struck an upper arm bone. Only one completely penetrated (I actually recall hearing it roll on the hardwood floor at the time of the incident).
The rounds worked, but dealing with someone with the combination of mental illness, drugs and alcohol made the .38 have to really stretch to be effective.

 

[Groo01]

Here in Ohio smaller SO's you used what was in the armory or got your
own.. Ammo also ..
I started with a Python and 125 rem mags and when they got too expensive went to a M-25 in 45 colt and silvertips ..
Stayed there till I moved and that So said 9MM so I went to a glock
17 with +2 base plates --- 19 rds per mag with what ever was cheapest for the county..
Oh for the old days!!!!

 

[adwjc]

Back in 1973, the JCPD required a 4" blue S&W or Colt, fixed sight 38 - buy your own. They issued 158 gr Ball ammo.

Late 1975, we were offered the option of carrying a Model 39 (only) if you qualified at your own expense (300 rounds) on your own time. Ammo issued was 115 gr FMJ

They started to issue the 158 Gr. Lead hollow point to the people carrying 38s around 1977. Next, Model 59s and later, 3rd gen S&W autos were allowed, still w/ the "on your dime" qualification. Silvertips became the issue round for the 9mm.

1985, they allowed the purchase of S&W 64's for new recruits, after that recruit class, the unions pushed for 9mms from day 1 (their point was why make a recruit buy a 38 and then like 90% wanted to switch anyway) and subsequent recruit classes were allowed to purchase 3rd Gen pistols .

About 1990 Glocks were allowed, and in 1992, became the mandatory purchase (previous pistols were grandfathered). Ammo issued for the .38s and 9mms were Silvertips for many years, until the Gold Dots came on the market.

Last change, around 2004 was to Glock s in 45 acp, that was after my time - I left in late '03.

 

[LOBO]

The Chief of our local Police Department carries his nickel S&W 586 4" on duty. He loads it with Winchester 145 gr Silvertips.

 

[2152hq]

Very early 70's, the Sheriffs Office supplied S&W M&P 6" blued revolvers of various ages to the road patrol. Sam Brown belt & strap set up w a simple holster w/ snap down strap. Reminded me of a 'Hunter' holster,,maybe they were. Spare ammo carried in open 12 loop belt carrier.

P/C and Command had either 2" M&P's or 2" M36's.
They mostly had personal purchase holsters to better suit their looks or concealment needs. Extra ammo usually in a small lose 5 round dump carrier on the belt.
All carry ammo was 158gr RNL. No exceptions.
Jail Deputys had to supply their own weapons & holster. Firearm had to be revolver of either Colt or S&W mfg,,, bbl length 4 to 6",, and in caliber 38Special.
Holster black leather w/ securing strap. No flap holsters, no shoulder holsters, no cross draw, no clamshell designs allowed.
Ammo provided,, same as above.

..and then for qualifying,,they'd buy cases of reloaded Wadcutter 38special cause it was cheap.

 

[ElectroMotive]

As I was told, Dallas PD from the mid 70s prior was a free for all. Then that sorry DoJ report came about involving DPD, and put an end to the anything goes policy.

They started going with S&W M10s, then 15s, and 64s. There were a few other models, ordered when the other 3 were short in supply. Texas Star is correct about the testing and ammo they used. In fact DPD was one of, if not the first dept to do extensive testing of multiple types, brands, and weights of bullets for a duty load.

Later in the 80's during the war against the Jamaicans, DPD allowed tthe .357mag. There were 66s, 586s, 686s (my neighbor carried one on duty), 27s, 28s (saw an officer with one at Medical City with a tazed suspect), 686+ (neighbor switched to this), and I know a current detective that carries a brace of M13-3s.

True the SIG Sauer is now the issue gun, Glocks are back on the approved list, while Berettas are no longer there. 9mm and .357sig is issued.

Some old hands are still spouting ugly rumors about 9mm effectiveness to anybody dumb enough to listen to them. This includes badge or otherwise. The 147gr Win Ranger T gets the job done when the shooter does his/her part. It replaced two rounds that sour police on the 9mm (115gr Hornady XTP, 115+p+ Remington JHP). There are cops that believe a recent shoiting in which its claimed the bullet penetrated 2 inches and stopped at a rib. Physics says its impossible, the coroner said it didnt happen that way, but dont tell the old hands that. ".357 anything is jus' mo powerful"

 

[LOBO]

At my old Sheriffs Department you could furnish your own sidearm as long as you could qualify with it. If you went with the issued gun you got a S&W 66 with a 4" barrel. Ammo was .357 mag 125 gr JHP, but I don't know the make.

 

[kbm6893]

NYPD issued .38 +P Federal Nyclad 158 grain FMJ rounds until about 1997, when they went to the same round in the hollow point version. My old Sgt killed a polar bear with the fmj round at the Brooklyn Zoo back in the early 80's. One shot behind the ear, but he had the time to line up a shot and it was pretty close (he was hanging over the fence upside down into the pen. The bear had mauled a kid who fell into the pen).

 

[Horseless Trooper]

When I started with the NYSP we were issued the S&W 681 for uniform and 3in 65 for the suits. Issued ammo was 158gr JSP. We used the 12 round loop loader and were not allowed to use speedloaders. Uniform could carry a personally owned weapon if approved but it had to be .38spl. or .357 mag., 4in. barrel, blue or stainless and American made. If you opted for .38 you had to carry 158gr. +P lead wadcutter.
One of the depts. I work for now allows me to carry a revolver if I want so if I carry my Model 14 it is currently loaded with Win. Ranger 130gr. +P JHP, or my Model 10 4in. with Federal 158+P LHP. If I carry my Colt Python 6in. it is stuffed with Remington 158 SJHP .357.

 

[Texas Star]

NYPD issued .38 +P Federal Nyclad 158 grain FMJ rounds until about 1997, when they went to the same round in the hollow point version. My old Sgt killed a polar bear with the fmj round at the Brooklyn Zoo back in the early 80's. One shot behind the ear, but he had the time to line up a shot and it was pretty close (he was hanging over the fence upside down into the pen. The bear had mauled a kid who fell into the pen).

This is most interesting. Massad Ayoob told me that the round used was the lead Plus P HP. I asked if he was sure, as NYPD did not authorize that load. He said that he'd talked to the officer ( Sgt.?) and that he did use that round.

Thanks for the info on placement and how he managed that. Elmer Keith recommended that a bullet be placed there, if possible.

I think this is the same shooting that Ayoob wrote up in gun magazines. Was there more than one polar bear shot in a NYC zoo around that time?

 

[kbm6893]

This is most interesting. Massad Ayoob told me that the round used was the lead Plus P HP. I asked if he was sure, as NYPD did not authorize that load. He said that he'd talked to the officer ( Sgt.?) and that he did use that round.

Thanks for the info on placement and how he managed that. Elmer Keith recommended that a bullet be placed there, if possible.

I think this is the same shooting that Ayoob wrote up in gun magazines. Was there more than one polar bear shot in a NYC zoo around that time?

It MIGHT have been hollow point. Some cops were known to carry them even though they weren't authorized, but they were not offically adopted until 97 or 98. I think that was the only polar bear ever shot by NYC cops! Imagine being taken out of your home in Antarctica then shot in Brooklyn by a NYC cop! And he was probably a police officer at the time of the shooting. When I knew him, he had been promoted already. Good guy. Can't remember his name, though. Big Irish guy.